Bad news for future MM users.
 

From the traxxas forums, after a few people said that their esc wouldnt work with 14cells (red & green leds light up, indicating over-voltage). That sucks like a giant hoover....:neutral:

Why would they do this?

I'm guessing they have spent more money on replacing fried ESCs than they have sold because of the tempting voltage limits, lol.

Thats a shame... the MM in larger scale cars was starting to get very popular. I bet there will many many of those MM ESC's on ebay now...

BTW - how can you tell if it is the old version or new version?

Patrick is probably having trouble procuring the MOSFETs. I already told him in rcgroups I can help with that, but no answer yet from him.

Novak is "notorious" for under-specing speed controls. But, you can see what's happened to Castle. They spec the MM for 3s lipos and many users figure that 4s or 5s lipos should be OK.

The 4s or 5s lipo info becomes conventional wisdom out here in R/C forum-land. Then users believe that MM's damaged from over-voltage should be replaced "for free." I have seen comments in various fora where a racer will admit to using an esc waaay out of spec but still think it should be covered by the warranty.

A vicious cycle. Often the factory can't really tell what causes the damage, so the customer is given the benefit of the doubt.

Castle should make the overvolt protection switchable in the setup menu. That way regular users could leave it on and retain the warranty coverage and the rest of us can switch it off and pay the fees if we cook it. Hell, they could even have different charges for repairs if it was switched off. Personally if I cook one trying too run to high gearing on a heavy vehicle it is my fault. I have had excellent service from castle on a lot of their products and never had a charge from them. Anyway, the 50 bucks should cover their cost of an esc. Just my 2 cents, can't blame them for cvering their butts:wink:

Honestly, the MM should be easily capable of 4s since it is rated for 12 cells, which is VERY close in voltage (both right-off-the-charger and nominal). There's even a 4s LVC setting. However, I've always thought 5s was too much to expect, and still don't think it should be used in larger vehicles even though it could technically work.

My MM worked flawless today on 4S. It was only warm after about 8 minutes. Now days any manufacture should come out with ESC that can handle 6S without a sweet. If the FETs have a rating of 30V or more they should be able to handle 6S and make it the limit. They should also offer ESC capable of 12S lipos for those who likes to run HV and less AMPS.

I tried my MM with 14 cells and no go. I got the red and green lights. I will try it w/ 4s next and see what happens...

BTW cogging was horrible at 17/52

I've been using my non-new (but not terribly old) Mamba Max 4600 system in a XTM X-Cellerator on 4s 4800mah 20C Lipo for a couple weeks now and have had absolutely no problems with the ESC or motor. And to think, the truck is geared for roughly 65-70mph, and the motor doesn't get hot, and there hasn't been a thermal shutdown yet. The power is so great that I can easily flip over after pegging the throttle while going 45mph.
There is also a CCBEC in use.

Well maybe Castle should put an and to all this BS and just release the MMM. Not that expect them too or anything. I gave up on Castle months ago.

Castle, Tekin and Novak must be staffed with a bunch of short-sighted bafoons. There is a growing market that is not being addressed. The big truck/conversion group is probably one of the few segments in the industry that is seeing gains.
Novak could easily manufacture their HV-Maxx with a 5mm shaft...today. What's so hard about that?
Castle and Tekin, with their information "leaks" are acting like slimy politicians. They let out info to see how people will react and hold interest so we don't forget about them.

My take on all this is that the brains at these companies are not a savvy as one would assume. There are some smart folks here at the forums and elsewhere that have taken things into their own hands and improved on the manufactured product. Why not hire some of them, Tekin and CC? How about some REAL hobbyists on staff. People who actually participate in the hobby and have a passion for it?
Let's face it. MONSTER Mamba Max is just a name of a project. Same with Tekin's "whatevertheycallit." If they had a controller, they would sell it. There's a huge potential for profit. A companies success is based on profit. So why don't they jump on it? Because they don't know how. They need better people.

I agree with you 100000000%. Patrick from Castle said that the double stacked FET board didn't work for them, but griffinru has done that MOD with great success. I'm coming out with my own ESC that will be for large cars/trucks/buggy just to show this big dumb companies how a normal guy like me can do it.

Good luck guys. I hope you the very best of luck. Yes, indeed.
Soon, I'll be getting married and leave this sorrowful world of RC for ever. I'm leaving this forum as of today, as well as all of the other RC forums...I feel sick of brushless, nitro and everything regarding RC....aaaaaahhhhhh fewy!!!
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to sleep for a while..:sleep:





i'm lying...

Well, speaking for some of the buffoons......

Novak--especially Bob---has been toiling away on several conversion kits for the most popular 1/8th scale nitro RTRs. His office is full of nitro vehicles and many little plastic parts.. Bob is a pretty busy guy---he should probably retire, but then do what?

So, he toils on. It is a very slow project, but there are sure signs that things are speeding up.

The Novak HV projects are on target for early '08. We don't say much on the forums--don't want to get slimed for raising expectations. Our systems are sensored and you monster guys aren't waiting expectantly for sensored brushless items, anyway.

I don't know about the "huge potential for profit" thing. It always reminds me of the old joke:

How can you make a small fortune in the R/C industry?

Start with a large fortune.

Speaking of sensored/sensorless, do you have any plans on making a sensorless ESC anytime in the future - or at least an ESC that can do both?

I know that sensored have smoother starts with zero cogging, but some of today's sensorless ESCs are getting pretty darned good about that. The Quark specifically is very good about this.

Most conversion kits are just a matter of a motor mount and a battery tray, and maybe a new spot to hold the ESC/receiver/UBEC. Most people can make, or have access to buy, the mounts, so it's mostly a matter of finding an ESC/motor that is powerful enough for our desires. :)

Also, while you're on here, I've heard that the Novak systems are kinda sensitive to gearing. Gear very much beyond the recommended value causes pretty major issues. With these sensorless systems, we can gear up as high as temps allow...

BL technology is really in its infancy. As time goes on, more and more products will become available. We will also explore making more high performance motors---both sensored and sensorless that do not have the ROAR price cap of $129.00.

Cool, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions! :)

Yeah, I suppose you have to build "for the masses" and not for some of us niche power freaks. Not too many emaxx people will want to fork out two 6s-7s cell packs for 12s-14s total.

Much of our time is spent winding and testing slower motors for stock/spec racing---oval, especially. Oval organizations and leagues are establishing BL/Lipo spec events, which is a pretty exciting development.

We have released the 17.5T motor, are about to release the 21.5T, and waiting on approval of the 25.5T motor. In addition we just started shipping the new Crawler products. Maybe next year, we can concentrate on faster items!

The industry really needs to attract more beginners, and many race directors think our BL 13.5T motors are too fast. I realize that forum members here are all about speed, so slower motors and beginner products are not so interesting.

Somewhere along the way, the word "thermalling" became a pejorative. Thermal OL protection was originally designed to warn users against wrong set-ups and bonehead mistakes. It was supposed to be a good, protective feature!

Makes sense. Most of the people here want high speed items AND lots of diff-grinding torque. :) And most here with those types of systems understand the technology and are able to piece together systems. Beginners need plug-n-play systems, but eventually those beginners will become BL freaks like us (hopefully).

I agree with you 100%. Someone need to make a sensored system kind of like the Aveox H series controllers. They handle 32 cells, which is good for 10S, because I think Aveox goes with the 1.4v max for NiCd and the only reason I don't run my H series controllers, is that they won't be repaired if they fail. If Novak comes out with a true HV controller and a bigger motor with the same design as the current HV motors, but with a 5mm, I would be the first one to get it. If Bob Novak needs inputs, he'll get his fare share in this forum. Some of the members are genius compared to lets say me LOL. Hope you pass the info to Bob.

NovakTwo... there is plenty of money to be made in the RC industry . I recall seeing some very nice brand new facilities of r/c companies and that doesn't happen by losing money.

Like any industry... some have failed... some have barely made it... and some have made a fortune.

I doubt anyone thinks r/c companies are due to make an appearance on Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous... but please spare us the poor-boy act. Novak is in it for the $$$ like everyone else.

Imagine if Novak was in it for the passion of the hobby. What kind of products would they come out with? I'm in it for the love of the hobby and that is why I'm having my own controller, basically because I got sick and tired of good things only coming out for the flyers. All the companies that are in this industry should really get inputs from some of the members of this forum. I will point out one example. GriffinRU turned the MM into a nice ESC by adding 2 power boards, better capacitors and something else that I can't recall. Patrick owner of Castle Creations made a poor excuse saying the they were going to make the Monster Maxx with stacked boards, but it didn't work out to well. GriffinRU made it work and how come the creator of the ESC didn't? Kind of makes all of us wonder what kind of people are manufacturing all this stuff.

A few hundred mexicans working in a sweat-shop. In all seriousness though, I would happily kill lots of people for a proper HV sensored system, even if it was just a basic plug & play jobby with very little programming options. The HvMaxx esc is fine enough, and I have had great success with it, but it would be nice if it was 6s capable, and the motor more powerful; the 380 rotor is its biggest failing- fine for stock trucks, but a heavy Maxx needs a bit more power to get it moving. I will commend you and Bob for all the work you do though, as without it I would probably be running brushed motors (God forbid!)...

You probably shouldn't bring up "passion" for the R/C industry. Bob got involved in R/C planes when he was a young boy and spent his entire working career in the industry. Novak has been around for 30 years, so the company has had years of involvement in the industry. We even know all of the people who have sold their companies---Losi, Associated, Orion/Peak.

But, I think what you mean by passion is, why doesn't Novak make some of the cool products that posters here want. Making a few, hand made products to be sold to a select group of customers is easy. Manufacturing the products to be sold to thousands of users at prices buyers are willing to pay is another matter.

There is also the matter of service. As mentioned above, some companies (such as Aveox) are not reliable when it comes to servicing their products. Therefore, Novak products have to be designed and manufactured to minimize potential service issues. Those "layer cake" controllers, while cool, are just not feasible for mfg or sale to most customers---too much potential for mis-use, damage or sub-standard performance.

For every product a manufacturer replaces, or gives away, free, the company must sell 5-8 new items to recover the parts/labor/overhead costs of that free item.

Bob, Adnan Khan (Novak's Senior Designer), and the entire tech staff are definitely well-informed about comments on various forums---both the complimentary ones and the not-so-flattering. So keep the ideas and comments flowing.

Your wishes should be granted early '08.

that would be great to have a major company like novak with a hv system.

LOL, as you as you don't take a page from Castle's book and end up fulfilling that wish in 2009 or later. :whistle:

now thats just now right brian. :lol::mdr:

lol, I hope NovakTwo knows I'm just playin' :smile:

Funny thing is that the "layer cake" controller such as the Schulze 40.160 is one controller that a few people wants to have. I saw a guy sell 3 of them used btw for $500 each. A member in this forum had 2 of them and regrets selling them. Ok Novak has been around for 30yrs, but most of the products now a days might be designed in the US, but are manufactured in Asia. All we need is a real HV system for larger vehicles. Should be real easy for the mighty Novak to produce. Aveox products are so reliable that they hardly need servicing. When Aveox was a player in this hobby, they made the product right the first time. Also, their motors can be serviced by NeuMotors and you know that Steve Neu used to work at Aveox and made a line up of motors with similar design.

Hello Gang,

It is good to see a lot of "familiar" names still on this forum. I have not posted in a real long time and came back to see if there was any progress in the BL world.

Unfortunatly I see the market has actually regressed rather than going forward (MM not handling as many cells as before). I get it that it is always about making money, as it should be. If there is no profit then the company will eventually go out of business (passion or not...), I get it! This is not a good enough reason to not develop what the market is asking for. I think a lot of the RC manufactures are missing the boat.

I can't believe non of the 1/8 buggy companies have put out an electric buggy. I can't believe the BL companies do not have systems to handle 1/8 buggies, 1/8 monster trucks, 1/5 buggy/truck/cars.

There is plenty of money out there...just not enough business creativity to harness it. I guess I'll take my money and spend it on other things while I wait for the RC market to get off of its A**. (See attached pic).

Sorry for the rant, but I have been in the hobby for over 26 years and it is such a shame that it can't keep up with today's technology.

Man it would take a serious setup to convert that to BL!!!

btw.... you know that doesn't have a rotary under the hood ;)

The rotary is doing just fine, she just has a new playmate...:mdr:

There shall be some changes. I've been designing some chassis specifically for BL systems. I have a 200A 14S capable controller being made and it is just the beginning. I have a few choices for the motor. Just whish the big companies would come out with a system that we would be happy with. If I can do it, imagine the companies that have 30yrs+ of experience, in house engineers and a nice load of money (I'm comparing this companies with me btw LOL).

I think items designed and produced by individuals for these niche markets are a wonderfull way to go. Novak was a garage/kitchen table operation for quite a few years in the seventies---it was in the right place, at the right time, with the right resources. That's how new companies are born.

Little guys with no payrolls or overhead can take the chances that larger companies can no longer risk. After all, Novak has about 45 employees, who expect to be paid on a regular basis! Best wishes to Lutach and Griffin-RU---it's interesting to see what inventors can come up with. There is some guy in Thailand who has stacked Novak power boards---we can't read the copy, though, because it's in Thai....

At heart, Bob Novak has always been a "tinkerer" and, if you could see his office, you would know that his heart is still in tinkering. We just wish he worked a bit faster! Fortunately, Adnan has taken over the electronic and motor design for @ the last 20 years.

The whole brushless technology revolution is exciting for electric R/C cars---if the industry can be revived, BL will do it. Nitro RTRs have really taken a huge share of the market. Maybe BL 1/8th scale products can help revive electric and bring back some of the excitement.

As far as nitro taking the majority of the market: Most of that is probably because back in the day, the only way to get decent power was to use gas. Even today, many nitro people still snicker when they see someone plugging batteries in any vehicle... until of course they see it run. :) And then there are some that actually like the noise, smell, cleanup, tuning headaches, etc...

Just thought I post Joe Ford's response from The Radio Control Zone forum.

There is no difference between controllers that left on day 1 and controllers that left today. It's luck of the draw whether your specific processor on your specific controller is going to handle that much voltage. Most will not as the controller was not designed to handle anything over 3s lipo. 4s works on most...5s I wouldn't even try and I WORK HERE.

Well, that's weird, because I have two different MM ESCs and they have different FET part numbers. The older MMs have the same part # as the ones Quark uses, while the newer MMs are different.

Brian,
Here is the thread and my response. I just could not resist.:slap:
http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/s...223182&page=52