Neu 2230: Any alternative choices ?
 

That's my new boating project, a brushless 1.4m DeepVee, a power hungry monster. The Neu2230/1Y looks like a perfect fit but the $750:surprised::neutral: price tag made me nervous. Do you guys have any alt suggestions?

Thanks in advance. :yes:

simple requirements:
• 4KW+ continuous power.
• KV between 600~800
• Inrunner for water cooling
• max RPM 3K+
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I know the Lehner stuffs are tough but they cost even more than Neu and are far more difficult to access for I am no good reading German. further more the 2-pole design makes Lehner run really beautiful at high RPMs but what Deep-Vees need is monster low speed torque where multi-pole motors shine.

still waiting. Neu 2230-1Y or 1.5Y alternatives WANTED.

I think you meant 30K+ rpm as well.

But have a look at this:
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...runner&cat=135

Littlescreamers is also coming out with a new wind in this motor size. It will be an 8-pole motor with a kv of 770. Should be more appealing.

You should really check out offshoreelctrics.com There are plenty of HV big boat builds there. There are quite a few builds going on with this motor as well. Check this one in particular: http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...ad.php?t=11758

Thanks for the remind.

Yes I noticed this motor as well, actually discussed in both offshoreelectrics and RCgroups but nowhere can I find the exact power rating. Scott from LittleScreamers also jointed the discussion but not likely to answer my simple request for the very basic ratings no matter how many times I asked.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1176326

You know power is everything for large boats...... without the power rating I can't get started building my project.

From my previous experience with outrunners in smaller boats, they do turn the prop well but always have a slooooow spool up time and always torque roll badly. Also from the 63mm Littlescreamers size and weight it looks like on the small side(sorry I have to guess without any official spec available), not even close to the Neu2230.

Does anyone else on this planet beside Steve Neu build 5KW multipole inrunners?

hi himalaya,

I probably have an idea for a motor. In our forum, once a motor from the company "savox" got testet, with quite good results. they are asian 2-pole motors, but with a much better quality then the usual chinese stuff. they're no lehners, but at least much better then any kb45... savox are oem-manufacturer for some brands, and their servos are pretty good.

there are some different websites, which is confusing, as their content varies.

for example:
http://www.savoxtech.com.tw/bls-5090.htm
it's pretty big, 50x90mm, 1000kv
maybe they also have them available at 900kv or so

ther's also one with a diameter of around 40mm, but can't find the bloody homepage, where it is sold.
found it:
http://www.savoxservos.nl/?cat=42&gtlang=de
but the 45 motor has too high kv. BUT: afaik they also make custom made motors. The guy behind that shop is from the netherlands, you can contact him via his homepage and ask him, which changes in kv are possible.

also found that
http://www.rumrunnerracing.com/fefor...p/t-29857.html

some weeks ago some new 4-pole motors were discussed here at rc-monster, do you remember? but' I cant remember their name, maybe they have something big with low kv.

the medusa 3680 1000 is still available, but I guess too small (http://shop.in-racing.de/index.php?page=product&info=22)

the torcman are german motors, too, and can provide up to 4000 watts 1,6 kg), but are outrunners and, for sure, expensive...
http://www.torcman.de/

florian

florian you are Sooooo informative! Many thanks to you.

I ran a Medusa 3680-1600 in my 82cm Deep-Vee and have run it for a year without any problem, still going strong. it's absolutely a sweet motor, pushes my mono near 100kmh. I run 5Ah + 2.65Ah Turnigy 6S packs in parallel, run time is around 5min. that means the average power is (5+2.65)*22.2/(5/60)=2038W!! peaks are even higher, but it is rated only 1300W max., it just takes anything I through at it.... Too bad they left this market, big regret for RC hobbists.:no:

As for the new motor we've discussed here, I guess you mean the Tenshock motors? they produce some nice small motors but larger ones are all 6 or 8 pole. I tried a 2240, have to set the timing over 25°to get it stop cogging at heavy throttle hits.

Okay I'll get back to your post, I need some time to digest your massive helpful information. :yipi:

hi himalaya,

your're wellcome :-), I am very interested in "alternative" motors along that standard stuff.

the medusas are STILL available. as far as I know the're produced by neu, but I'm not sure. the shop link above (just an expample) shows a german shop, where they're sold. the new ones are black, and the can is without holes. I am not kidding. still available is the old medusa 3680 1000 (blue), the 1100 goes up to 55 volts, so you can have a cool setup. still, 1300watts aren't enough, but I think it's a very conservative rating. I have a 3680-1600 in my 5kg truggy, and it's simply over-powered...

yes, thenshock is the brand. afaik they're some real good motors, but not cheap either.

the problem about 8-pole motors is that these 8 poles mean a sh*it load of work for the esc. like 2-pole is simple, 8 pole very difficult work for the esc. when it's cogging at full throttle, I think the esc has reached its maximum of its calculating-capacity.

like that, the maximum rpm-limit of the esc for a 2-pole motor is much higher then an 8-pole motor. you need a real good esc, probably one of the new ones of hobbywing which are supposed to have a fast cpu. or you need an esc, which is just proven to work well with 6- or 8 pole motors.

I had some excellent experience with my cheapo suppo-style 200a-esc. LESS cogging then the sae-esc (same timing) with the 4-pole motor. but nobody will belive that anyways... I have once read that they have copied the software/design of "jeti", so that's why they're that good. but thas was 4-pole, no Idea if the're good at 8poles.

which esc did you use? you don't need a proportional break I think, so you can take any plane esc which has a fast cpu.

maybe you have to change the pwm-settings too. but a higher pwm means a hotter esc, too.

I remember the german brand "flyware", who were oem-manufacturer for Graupner (inline 700). they have some very solid outrunner motors, and I remember that these outrunners - due to the lot of poles - were likely to kill esc's. That is also the reason why the BK-warrior esc's ONLY work with 2-poles, NOT for 4-poles (otherwise it will smoke the esc). the're just too lame for 4-poles.

florian

Yes I was running a Hobbywing Seaking180A marine ESC to drive the Tenshock 2240, it cogs so badly even with no load that I don't dare to get it in the water. Guess I'll stick on 4 pole motors, all 4 pole motors I've used are just amazingly smooth yet powerful.

But for my new 1.4m Deep-Vee project, the Hobbywing is just too small, I need a 50V 200A ESC, maybe one of these, the HV240 version, but needs patience for those to be available. Shame that I failed to find a way to purchase this Chinese product domestically though I live right here in Beijing.
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...ad.php?t=11389

also I can convert this one to have water cooling capability, available right now.
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/s...dproduct=10332

Big outrunners are available around, with more-than-enough power ratings, like this one from HobbyKing:
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/s...idproduct=5139
the problem here is they are all designed to be used in large aircrafts to direct drive large propellers, so the KVs are very low, normally in the range of 100~200RPM/V which is useless for boats. I am going to run 12S 10~15Ah lipo in my boat, need the motor spins the propeller over 20K RPM to have nice speed, resulting in a KV requirement over 600RPM/V.
Scorpion's HK series outrunners offer those higher KV but their power rating is a bit low.
http://www.scorpionsystem.com/catalo...0/HK-4035-800/
Their website claims a new 5035, it looks having enough power but not available yet.
http://www.scorpionsystem.com/catalo...0/hk_5035_500/

Also, water cooling is a big issue for outrunners working in sealed boat hulls.

Richard

yes, I can imaginge, for cooling purposes outrunners are a problem in a boat.

what a pity that that esc didn't work well. suppo has some hv-esc for up to 15s, on the homepage it says out of stock.
I don't think that they're any worse than the stuff at HK. I used to have a turnigy sentilon/hobbywing, and I had problems with it. it didn't work properly and made a "screaming" sound (no matter which settings), and others had these problems, too. I'd choose the scorpion over a no-name of HK, the Quality of scorpion seems to be pretty ok.

hmm, not that easy :neutral:
florian

You might be interested:

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...ead.php?t=9677