RC-Monster Forums - View Single Post

zeropointbug · 03:12 AM

Austin, please, you have not answered a single technical question we have asked.

See THIS, why can't MA supply us with a graph like this? Or at least

http://www.flightpower.co.uk/index.asp

or this.

http://www.impaktrc.com/product_info...oducts_id=4546

Just because MA believes 'there is no standard' doesn't mean you can abuse the power/freedom of that, as even mentioning the surge rating WITHOUT even a HINT of a continuous C rating is ridiculous, and really is false advertising to unknowing consumers, namely begineers.

Austin, also, when I said that no one trusts you, I meant to say no one HEAR trust you, at least no one I can think of.

Like Lincpimp said, just because you are 'rated' number one trusted battery manufacture... that doesn't mean ANYTHING, nothing, no thing. Just because religion is wide spread and many ppl believe in it, doesn't make it true. Just because McDonalds is the number one crap-food restaurant in the world, doesn't make it good for you. You guys are big, no doubt, and you guys have alot of influence, no doubt, but again that does not give you the right the advertise that you have the 'best battery in the market today' as you did. I have little doubt that RCaction rated you the best maker because you have the highest paying advertising in there mag.

About the C rating again, you say there is no standard, well there was a resemblance of a standard before you showed up with your '60C best battery on market' lingo. I am not saying that continuous C ratings mean anything - but relatively, they held water with the high end packs such as FP, Hyp, Neu, Polyquest, and the rest of the Enerland based packs. Now, with these new generation packs (G3's, TP PP 40C, Neu 40C's, Fullymax, to name a few) the ratings are consistent as far as I can see; but again, only relatively. You are right that most manufacturers only rate their packs C rating based on SINGLE CELL performance, and obviously a cont. C should change slightly when in a pack... but companies like Hyperion actually state their packs Ri, and not just a single cell multiplied by cells in the pack.

What I would like to see is pack Ri on all batteries, that is basically what it comes down to, isn't it? Ri would be the simplest, shortest way of saying what the performance of pack is. But also, when you increase the cont. C rating, the pack Ri has to go down exponentially, because waste heat is delta V (voltage) X amperage... as you increase the amps, you have to have MUCH higher voltage holding ability, not a linear thing here. Example:

Now I am not an expert by any means about waste battery heat, efficiency and C rating, but this is just my take on it, or what it should be, based on some simple technical characteristics of a lipo battery.

Let's say two given packs from the same brand/manufacturer are at the same state of charge, and both are sitting at the same resting voltage, say 4.0volts.
We have a 20C cont. rated pack, and a 40C cont. rated pack from the same manufacturer, both are 1000mah capacity.

20C pack: @ 20C discharge holds 3.2volts/cell, so 4.0v subtract 3.2v = 0.8v ... multiply that by the amperage, 0.8v X 20 amps = 16watts of heat output.

40C pack: @40C discharge holds 3.6volts/cell, so 4.0v subtract 3.6v = 0.4v ... multiply that by the amperage, 0.4v X 40 amps = 16 watts of heat output.

My point here is when you double the C rating, you need to cut the packs Ri to 1/4 of the previous lipo.

But then along comes another argument, that well at the 40C discharge, that 16 watts of heat is not going to raise the temperature as much as the 20C pack because it's half the time. So what, I think it should be heat output power, period.

	(#10)
zeropointbug Z-Pinch racer Offline Posts: 3,141 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: SK, Canada	07.29.2009, 12:25 AM Austin, please, you have not answered a single technical question we have asked. See THIS, why can't MA supply us with a graph like this? Or at least http://www.flightpower.co.uk/index.asp or this. http://www.impaktrc.com/product_info...oducts_id=4546 Just because MA believes 'there is no standard' doesn't mean you can abuse the power/freedom of that, as even mentioning the surge rating WITHOUT even a HINT of a continuous C rating is ridiculous, and really is false advertising to unknowing consumers, namely begineers. Austin, also, when I said that no one trusts you, I meant to say no one HEAR trust you, at least no one I can think of. Like Lincpimp said, just because you are 'rated' number one trusted battery manufacture... that doesn't mean ANYTHING, nothing, no thing. Just because religion is wide spread and many ppl believe in it, doesn't make it true. Just because McDonalds is the number one crap-food restaurant in the world, doesn't make it good for you. You guys are big, no doubt, and you guys have alot of influence, no doubt, but again that does not give you the right the advertise that you have the 'best battery in the market today' as you did. I have little doubt that RCaction rated you the best maker because you have the highest paying advertising in there mag. About the C rating again, you say there is no standard, well there was a resemblance of a standard before you showed up with your '60C best battery on market' lingo. I am not saying that continuous C ratings mean anything - but relatively, they held water with the high end packs such as FP, Hyp, Neu, Polyquest, and the rest of the Enerland based packs. Now, with these new generation packs (G3's, TP PP 40C, Neu 40C's, Fullymax, to name a few) the ratings are consistent as far as I can see; but again, only relatively. You are right that most manufacturers only rate their packs C rating based on SINGLE CELL performance, and obviously a cont. C should change slightly when in a pack... but companies like Hyperion actually state their packs Ri, and not just a single cell multiplied by cells in the pack. What I would like to see is pack Ri on all batteries, that is basically what it comes down to, isn't it? Ri would be the simplest, shortest way of saying what the performance of pack is. But also, when you increase the cont. C rating, the pack Ri has to go down exponentially, because waste heat is delta V (voltage) X amperage... as you increase the amps, you have to have MUCH higher voltage holding ability, not a linear thing here. Example: Now I am not an expert by any means about waste battery heat, efficiency and C rating, but this is just my take on it, or what it should be, based on some simple technical characteristics of a lipo battery. Let's say two given packs from the same brand/manufacturer are at the same state of charge, and both are sitting at the same resting voltage, say 4.0volts. We have a 20C cont. rated pack, and a 40C cont. rated pack from the same manufacturer, both are 1000mah capacity. 20C pack: @ 20C discharge holds 3.2volts/cell, so 4.0v subtract 3.2v = 0.8v ... multiply that by the amperage, 0.8v X 20 amps = 16watts of heat output. 40C pack: @40C discharge holds 3.6volts/cell, so 4.0v subtract 3.6v = 0.4v ... multiply that by the amperage, 0.4v X 40 amps = 16 watts of heat output. My point here is when you double the C rating, you need to cut the packs Ri to 1/4 of the previous lipo. But then along comes another argument, that well at the 40C discharge, that 16 watts of heat is not going to raise the temperature as much as the 20C pack because it's half the time. So what, I think it should be heat output power, period. “The modern astrophysical concept that ascribes the sun’s energy to thermonuclear reactions deep in the solar interior is contradicted by nearly every observable aspect of the sun.” —Ralph E. Juergens Last edited by zeropointbug; 07.29.2009 at 03:12 AM.