RC-Monster Forums  

Go Back   RC-Monster Forums > Support Forums > Brushless

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Some ESC questions for the Nerds!
Old
  (#1)
Byte
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Some ESC questions for the Nerds! - 02.23.2010, 05:18 PM

I'm getting more and more interested of how an ESC works. I'm still sad that I couldn't choose physics at school because my marks weren't good enough, now I have to do 2,5 years economics

Anyway... I've got some questions about ESC's for the nerds around here :)
- What does determines the smoothness (no-cogging) of an ESC? Mainly the software does, right? But very many people also think because of capacitors. Adding capacitors makes an ESC more smooth. I don't understand why capacitors can do this? The amp draw isn't high at low RPM, and a capacitor only sucks up current from the battery and gives it to the ESC if the battery can't offer enough current right? Are there also more things which determine the smoothness of an ESC?
- Capacitors got an "uF" amount. The amount of current they can suck up. My dad told me it's possible to convert uF to mA, but he didn't remember how lol. Can somebody tell me how this is done?
- What do MOSFET's actually do in an ESC?
- Why does an ESC get's warm/hot? Because of the resistance in the MOSFET's? Too low rated electronics?

Just some things that I'm interested in, and just want to know :) Especially the first 2 questions. This questions should be easy for BrianG, ZPB etc... So I hope you can help me :)
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#2)
lutach
RC-Monster Dual Brushless
 
lutach's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 5,139
Join Date: Sep 2006
02.23.2010, 05:42 PM

Yahoo, Google, Bing (Disease in Chinese) and a huge thread in rcgroups will be your friend.
  Send a message via MSN to lutach  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#3)
What's_nitro?
Soldermaster Extraordinaire
 
What's_nitro?'s Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 4,529
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Plymouth, MA, USA
02.23.2010, 05:54 PM

Here's some good info to get you started.

Farad

MOSFET

On cogging, it happens whenever the ESC cannot properly sense the position of the rotor. It is far more prevalent on startup because the rotor is not moving quickly enough for the ESC to sense its position and commutate the correct sequence of current pulses for smooth rotation. You are right, at low speed the motor does not draw much power. On startup, however, there is a short high current pulse when starting the motor, as it's basically stalled for that short time. Capacitors help with cogging because they can provide that extra burst of current that the motor needs on startup, and so the ESC better senses the position of the rotor and there is less/no stuttering.

ESC's heat up because, like all other electronic things, they are not perfect conductors. There is a certain amount of voltage lost across the junction of the MOSFETs in the ESC. It isn't much, but losses, in the form of heat, are related to the current passing though the ESC. Say you run a 4s pack (14.8V) and there is a voltage loss of 0.5V after passing through the MOSFETs in the ESC. Ths would mean only 14.3V is getting to the motor. So where does the rest go? Well if your motor at a given time is drawing 30 amps of current from your battery, then by Ohm's law:

0.5V * 30A = 15W

Which means that the ESC is dissipating that 15W as pure heat. So you can see why there is such a fuss over creating superconducting materials. No voltage loss would mean no heat!

Last edited by What's_nitro?; 02.23.2010 at 05:55 PM.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#4)
BrianG
RC-Monster Admin
 
BrianG's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 14,609
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Des Moines, IA
02.23.2010, 07:31 PM

FET heat comes from the rdson component, copper losses, and the fact that the switching action is not perfect square waves.
  Send a message via Yahoo to BrianG Send a message via MSN to BrianG  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#5)
What's_nitro?
Soldermaster Extraordinaire
 
What's_nitro?'s Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 4,529
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Plymouth, MA, USA
02.23.2010, 08:17 PM

   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#6)
magman
RC-Monster Dual Brushless
 
magman's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 4,236
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cape Cod, Mass.
02.23.2010, 09:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by What's_nitro? View Post
+1 as well to what Brian said...that's why he's one of the RCM elite!


1. MBX-6 T8 1900KV, RX8 ON 4S
2. MBX-5T 1520, MMM ON 5S
3. MBX-5 ONROAD CONVERSION 1515, MMM ON 5S
4. MRX-3 ON ROAD CONVERSION 1512, MMM ON 6S
5. TEN T 2650 T8, MMP ON 3S
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#7)
BrianG
RC-Monster Admin
 
BrianG's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 14,609
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Des Moines, IA
02.23.2010, 10:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by What's_nitro? View Post
Sorry if it seemed like I was correcting you, but rather expanding on what you already said. Hope I didn't come across that way...
  Send a message via Yahoo to BrianG Send a message via MSN to BrianG  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#8)
redshift
RC-Monster Square Tube
 
redshift's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 1,367
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: CNY
02.23.2010, 10:57 PM

No fans OR paint now Brian?

Or no painted fans?
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#9)
What's_nitro?
Soldermaster Extraordinaire
 
What's_nitro?'s Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 4,529
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Plymouth, MA, USA
02.23.2010, 10:57 PM

Nah, it's OK. I used the because there isn't a smiley for "Oh sh*t I forgot!".
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#10)
BrianG
RC-Monster Admin
 
BrianG's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 14,609
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Des Moines, IA
02.23.2010, 11:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by redshift View Post
No fans OR paint now Brian?

Or no painted fans?
No fans for R/C electronics. No paint for R/C bodies (I wreck them too fast to spend time making it look pretty).
  Send a message via Yahoo to BrianG Send a message via MSN to BrianG  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#11)
jsr
RC-Monster Carbon Fiber
 
Offline
Posts: 212
Join Date: Feb 2009
02.24.2010, 10:18 PM

I have a question regarding the input capacitor voltage ratings. Why is the voltage of the input caps typically ~10V above the highest supported input voltage rating?

Ex:
4s 14.8V rated ESC = Caps rated to 25V
6s 22.2V rated ESC = Caps rated to 35V

Typically in other circuits, the input filter cap voltage chosen isn't much higher than the supply voltage as the source shouldn't be able to supply more than the maximum rating. Even at full charge of 4.2V/cell, a 4s pack will only be able to supply 16.8V, no where near the 25V rating of the caps.

Thanks.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#12)
BrianG
RC-Monster Admin
 
BrianG's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 14,609
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Des Moines, IA
02.24.2010, 10:49 PM

It's always nice to have a little extra headroom for voltage spikes, which can easily exceed the applied battery voltage. Also, caps come in certain standard voltage ratings like 10v, 25v, 35v, 50v, and so on. 25v is just the closest common value.
  Send a message via Yahoo to BrianG Send a message via MSN to BrianG  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#13)
_paralyzed_
working on a brushless for my wheelchair.....
 
_paralyzed_'s Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 4,890
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: minnesnowta
02.24.2010, 10:52 PM

A Cool guy here, just checking in to see what the nerds are saying


_______________________________________

It's "Dr. _paralyzed_" actually. Not like with a PhD, but Doctor like in Dr. Pepper.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#14)
simplechamp
RC-Monster Titanium
 
simplechamp's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 1,884
Join Date: Jul 2009
02.25.2010, 07:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsr View Post
I have a question regarding the input capacitor voltage ratings. Why is the voltage of the input caps typically ~10V above the highest supported input voltage rating?
Also, electrolytic capacitors last approx. 8 times longer when operated at half of their rated voltage compared to full rated voltage.
   
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump







Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com