No ask, no tell me

[TexasSP]

Hopefully everyone can keep this civil.

I think it is way past time for this though:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/...lson-nebraska/

I don't support the gay/lesbian lifestyle but seriously, trying to continuously alienate people does nothing to help anyone. All you do is force people into discontent and lying. I have gay members of my family and would never want them to feel they have to lie or hide that from us. I would never want them to feel unwelcome.

When it comes to the military it should be about the quality of the soldier and not what there personal choices are that have no bearing on serving in the military.

If it was me I would be concerned with the soldier next to me being the best and not who they share their bed with.

Anyway, what do others think? And remember keep this respectful regardless of your views.

[snellemin]

Who or what you share your bed with is no concern of mine. All that matters is that you do your work well. The Romans did it, the Greeks did it. Why can't we in a modern time not handle this?

[nitrostarter]

Originally Posted by snellemin

The Romans did it, the Greeks did it. Why can't we in a modern time not handle this?

Didn't you hear? It's the latest trend for many Senators and Congressmen these days.

[Arct1k]

Play nice everyone... :)

[snellemin]

Originally Posted by nitrostarter

Didn't you hear? It's the latest trend for many Senators and Congressmen these days.

The memo wasn't forwarded to me.

[pinkpanda3310]

Soo, don't ask don't tell is serving openly? Serving disguised means?- gays in the forces were just getting away with it? Most gays I've met either never struck me as gay or never had much to do with them. Except one, he is a good man, he has been a long standing friend of my sister and helped her through difficult times.

All countries and races have range of characters, the creed or the colour shouldn't matter. Particularly in times of need/conflict which enlist fit eligible men.

I might be more reserved had I not met my sisters friend.

[reno911]

If they want to serve let them serve. Besides there is a more pressing concern on our military these days besides homosexuals. Which is, it isn't just the gays that want to join, it is everyone. Before the depression, cough, recession, excuse me... The gov was handing out signing bonuses to get people to join due to lack there of. Now, with less jobs on a daily basis many are turning to military services as a form of employment.

I am not sure how bad it is where you live, but here in NV, 9 out of every 10 applicants gets denied rather than accepted. Our military has become picky with those they let in.

A friend of mine, recently laid off from his employer, decided to join the National Guard here in Reno area, Stead, and got declined. He passed everything with flying colors, but apparently they had met their quota close two four months back and are only continuing to test to seek future recruits. When he would be able to join, they had no timeline.

[BrianG]

Personally, it's not my lifestyle. And I don't believe it's "how it should be" (biologically speaking, nature inherently wants to procreate to continue the species). But what people do is their business as long as they don't try to force their lifestyle on me, and will "settle" for equal rights (not special) rights. That said, the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" scheme makes perfect sense.

Just curious here (and somewhat on topic) but it seems like there are a LOT more gay/lesbians lately. Do you guys think this is simply because it is more socially "allowed" nowadays, or some other reason (like nature's attempt at keeping the human population in check)?

[snellemin]

I think it's the same amount as always. It's just seem like there are more, because of the media and whatnot.

[TexasSP]

I think there may be more who experiment with it do to how it is viewed in the mainstream now. I also believe there are some who will do it for attention. Then I believe there are those who really feel/believe that they are gay and that number is probably the same as always as snellemin said.

I am with BrianG I don't want it rubbed in my face and it forced to be treated as special. This is a lesson we could all take to heart as to not rub our own lifestyles and beliefs in other peoples faces. As the old saying goes "tall fences make for good neighbors".

Personally I would much rather live next to an openly gay/lesbian couple than some hetero couple who throw wild parties all weekend stay drunk and make noise all hours of the night. In fact some of the best neighbors I had were a lesbian couple and the worst a guy and his girlfriend who always had there loser friends over causing all manner of issues.

I guess the thing I don't get is banning gays from the military or the tongue-in-cheek way of not allowing it but still allowing it.

[zeropointbug]

Personally, I think the very large % of gays/lesbians in western culture is a side-effect of the society itself. Ever since the 'women's rights' movement decades ago (supported/funded by the Rothchilds), the family unit has disappeared, women as not as happy as they used to be, men are not as happy, children are placed in day cares, people don't have time to make homemade meals like they used to, it goes on and on. Women's right is probably the biggest cruelest hoax on man kind, it is one of the root causes to all peoples general unhappiness, and has, IMHO, infiltrated the minds of women, and to keep it short, is the main reason why we (Western Culture) have so many gay/lesbian (not that I dislike them, but it's not 'desirable' for society).

[TexasSP]

Interesting thoughts. While I can't subscribe to that wholly I think there are some valid points in there.

We in western culture have degraded and devalued family and I do believe many of the ills we face are a result of this.

While technologically speaking we are at the most advanced point in the Earth's history I do not know how socially speaking we could say this is so. I also think a lot of our technology has degraded are relationships. When you see people out to eat together and all are tapping away on their own PED's instead of enjoying each others company it is a sickening site. People more interested in Facebook than real relationships, people more in tune to their iphone than their spouse, people more into their work than what their children are doing.

[reno911]

Originally Posted by zeropointbug

Personally, I think the very large % of gays/lesbians in western culture is a side-effect of the society itself. Ever since the 'women's rights' movement decades ago (supported/funded by the Rothchilds), the family unit has disappeared, women as not as happy as they used to be, men are not as happy, children are placed in day cares, people don't have time to make homemade meals like they used to, it goes on and on. Women's right is probably the biggest cruelest hoax on man kind, it is one of the root causes to all peoples general unhappiness, and has, IMHO, infiltrated the minds of women, and to keep it short, is the main reason why we (Western Culture) have so many gay/lesbian (not that I dislike them, but it's not 'desirable' for society).

Different way of looking at it.

Our societies way of life these days is in the shitter, but I don't think it has anything to do with the creation of Homosexuality. If we had more traditional roles, yes we would have a stronger foundation with less people searching for a norm. However part of America's foundation is that of personal freedom or rights. With these at our backbone we are doomed to yield to the stupidest of lifestyles as well as the best and everywhere in between. Not that I should come off as saying a homosexual lifestyle is a stupid way of living, there are many extremely successful gays in our community. What I am trying to say is that we are at a point in this nations time where there is no set definition of what it means to be American. In most Americans eyes including mine, to be an American is to be free to do what ever it is you want within the confines of the law. No more apple pie, cheeseburgers, and football. Hello whatever the hell you can get away with. Which includes sticking the largest brushless motor in anything with wheels.

[kulangflow]

A few scattered random thoughts: (I reserve the right to clarify these ideas if they don't come across as intended or are misunderstood for any reason.)

I have always wondered about the biological factors that may or may not pre-dispose preference. Different preferences observed include: opposite gender, same gender, same/different races, young age, really young age, old age, different species, living, dead, single partner, multiple partners, inanimate objects, etc.

I don't claim to know much about anything, but what I have learned/observed is that there are small groups of people who have an unusual preference for things not typical.

Typical is of course subjective, but for me this includes desire for a sexual partner not of an appropriate gender or age for healthy reproduction.

Are these atypical desires caused by genetic makeup, the environment in which people are raised, or a combination? Everyone has genetic differences and tendencies. If genetic, when is it okay to act on your desire versus suppressing it? Should we as a society encourage, discourage, or ignore it? Different cultures view these preferences in varying lights. Some cultures are okay with multiple partners, some with partners of really young ages (13 year old girls marrying 30 year old guys, etc).

The attitude/acceptance toward some of the more "extreme" preferences (dead people, inanimate objects, infants) is shared amongst most cultures, but sure enough there are some minor groups that don't have a problem with it at all. The line is drawn differently by each culture, which is pretty fascinating. The line changes over time within most cultures. At what point does the line of acceptance drift far enough away that it becomes detrimental to the culture? It's certainly interesting to think about.

I am pretty conservative. My opinion is that anything outside of a healthy relationship between a man and women is considered atypical and should not be encouraged or celebrated. This is not to say I consider someone who prefers same gender equal to someone who prefers infants. This is not to say I think that any of these groups should have less/no rights, unless they are harming someone else's rights. I just don't feel that I should have to go out of my way to celebrate or accept their differences as normal, when they are abnormal.

Regarding the original point of this thread, if I were in the armed forces, I would want to know my team-mates' preference just so I'd know who to not change in front of. I don't think they should be housed with the heterosexuals for the same reason I don't think men should be housed with women. They can fight together and work together, just shouldn't be forced to sleep/change/etc in the same room.

I don't claim to have the answers. These are just things I wonder about that are interesting to me.

[reno911]

I have had this conversation before on many attempts to do away with DNA and genetics being a fault to Homosexuality. If you are a believer in scientific factors of evolution, than why would a species DNA allow for a form of being that goes against the simplest factor of life, reproduction. The sole purpose of life is life, and its forever continuum. I think it would be impossible for a reproductive life form to evolve a gene that would allow that life form to chose not to reproduce. Homosexuality is more of a mental construct that a genetic one. They simply chose the same sex over the other due to mental history or factors in their life that allow them to become more acceptable to the same sex. Again this can fall back on the lack of an American standard of life. With out a normal lifestyle proposed as the common way you should live people have no mental capacity to what was once considered the normal American way.