A123 battery systems

[JERRY2KONE]

Hey have you guys heard? A123 systems is filing bank ruptsy after receiving more than $350M in US Gov grants (free money), plus more than $150M in tax breaks for their research and development group (more free money). I was shocked when I heard this on Fox News this evening. They were awarded the number one battery developer/designer in the USA for advanced technology used in many of their automobile applications. I do not know how this will trickle down through their R/C section, but things are not looking good for them right now. Just wanted to share the latest news.

[BrianG]

I just read that and was surprised.

[zeropointbug]

Maybe they should have sold their products more widespread then, not just to OEM's (the last couple years). The only way to get a hold of their cells now is rejects, apparently according to mistercrash. Which I wouldn't doubt, as they are always lower capacity cells from there.

It doesn't make any sense that they shouldn't be at the top of the EV battery market, as their tech. has the least expensive 'life cost' of any battery, that I know of.

[BrianG]

I think their death knell sounded when the Obama administration gave them a grant. Because we all know what happens to just about any "green" company that Obama invests in!

[JERRY2KONE]

Unfortunately our nation is so overwhelmed with the price of gas and the expectation that things are going to get even worse, that we are all looking for a quick fix to the problem. We all have hope that there will be a green technology that will save us all. The unfortunate part is that there may be a resolution, but it will not come overnight. Some technology takes time for us to wrap our minds around the concept before the solution finally come to the surface. Our Gov under pressure from the masses invests billions into research expecting that that will fix the problem quickly, and immediately.

From what we have observed A123 has already made some huge advances in battery technologies, and left alone probably would be able to make even more. But with so much pressure placed on the people who are trying to do this are expected to create miracles, and that is simply unrealistic. I feel sorry for the people working for A123. This will not be the last company to loose its grip on control because our Gov is interfering in private enterprize.

[BrianG]

I just don't get why our leader invested so heavily in some green technologies. Solar seems like a good idea because it is "free". But initial setup and maintenance costs are high, while today's solar cells are not efficient enough to be a viable alternative to fossil fuels. Solar can work for charging your cellphone, or maybe even to supplement home energy usage (albeit expensive), but it just doesn't scale well for the energy needs of something like a town or city. It's like this administration just listened to these company's sales pitches without any real knowledge how they really work or how realistically viable they would be.

I think we all know and realize the use of fossil fuels is not going to last forever, but we need to take "baby steps" to get to a place where we are not reliant on FF. Electric/battery may be viable for transportation needs, and motors and controllers have reached high efficiency levels and are relatively cheap to produce, but battery tech still doesn't have the energy density and light weight we need. Home heating is very inefficient when done electrically, so I don't think FF is going away anytime soon for that usage.

Personally, I don't think taking the immediate large leap from FF to electric is the way to go. Instead, let's tweak our engines to run on a more alcohol-based fuel. There are quite efficient ways to obtain different forms of alcohol for this (like algae farms). Then that would give us some time to perfect battery tech. Even then, I see a hybrid setup of battery (or maybe just capacitors) and fuel cells as being a more viable solution to providing energy for transportation than relying on batteries.

What I liked about A123 was their safe and robust batteries. What I didn't like was the weight and energy density. Anyone with a brain could have seen that it would have taken some VERY huge leaps in development to be able to effectively use any kind of battery in a vehicle.

I don't think hybrids are the solution either; having both electric and FF system increases complexity (more things to go wrong) and initial cost, and what do you get? Marginally better gas mileage, but I doubt the fuel savings compensate for the higher initial cost and the cost to replace the battery bank once they get "worn" in a relatively short time.

I do like the trend of auto-makers using smaller engines with a turbo, and I'm not talking about performance cars, but the daily driver. The smaller engine is better on gas, is lighter, and has more than enough power especially for highway usage. But the turbo provides the added power during take-offs and acceleration most notably in city driving. No need to lug around extra cylinders when fewer will do the job just as effectively in most cases. I get the same or better gas mileage and better performance in my mid-size 2.0L turbo Kia Optima than I did in my old 2.5L N/A Mazda 3 which was smaller and lighter. Those are the kinds of ideas we need to implement since there isn't a easy/fast "magic" solution to all this.

Hmm, I seem to have gotten off track there. I guess my point is that I agree with you; there is no immediate and simple fix to the problem, but there are ways to get there eventually with a little thought and planning.

[zeropointbug]

Agreed, the whole way of thinking for energy usage is completely non-nonsensical and backwards... indeed it's kept this way by the power that be, it's part of the system that enslaves us.

We need advanced energy technology, I too am not talking about hybrid this, or 'green' low CO2 that... I mean real technology.

Here is ONE example of what I'm talking about. Cold Fusion boys!

http://www.e-catworld.com/


Mainstream scientists are finally 'looking at it'

http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/

[_paralyzed_]

I dunno why a123 didn't just put flame stickers on their cells

[JERRY2KONE]

There are in fact some viable solutions already being used in other parts of the world. I think this is why Obama felt compelled to move as fast as we can to catch up. There are already entire towns surviving on wind power for household utilities, and in parts of Europe this trend is growing very quickly. Jay Leno had an episode last year showing how he setup his car shop/museum to run completely off of one wind turbine, and some solar panels. The kicker was how he paid for the equipment. Apparently California and the Federal Gov had some rebate programs setup to assist with installation. If I remember correctly he said the initial investment was upwards of $30K, and after filing for the federal and State rebate exemption programs he was out less than $1000. The wind turbine or squirl cage as he called it developed enough energy to cover 60-70% of his energy needs. The solar panels take care of the rest, and in fact he claims that the power company is now paying him for electricity he is feeding back into the grid.

Anyway the point is that there are ways to deal with the majority of our power needs at home if we only figure out how to pay for and set them up. I also agree that there are already alternatives for driving if only we could get past the whole bigger is better way of thinking. The smart car made in Europe gets 45 to 55 MPG, and you can park it just about anywhere you want with little effort. From what I have read the electric Smart car is being released in California this year, and can be plugged into any 120v household socket for charging. It is expected to run up to 90mph, and get more than 100 miles per charge. What more can we ask for in todays techi world?

Americans will soon get the chance to buy what is generally considered the world’s most inexpensive automobile. But considering the safety problems experienced by the little Tata Nano – which has received only a mixed reception in its home Indian market – it’s anyone’s guess whether U.S. motorists will say yes or no-no to the microcar.

The Nano is the work of Tata, one of India’s biggest industrial conglomerates and parent to a carmaking division with aggressive global aspirations. Along with the homegrown Tata brand it also owns both the British Jaguar and Land Rover marques.

There’s no confusing their products, however. The original Tata Nano is a step up from a motor scooter, with only the most minimal creature comforts and a severe lacking of safety features, as well, according to critics.

The U.S. version will have to meet federal laws, of course, which would mandate the addition of such niceties as airbags and electronic stability control. And the engine may get a little boost from the basic 37 horsepower that it makes in India.


Can Tata Make a Nano that Americans would take seriously? It apparently wants to try.But don’t expect the American microcar to have much more, Tata’s eponymous Chairman Rattan Tata told Automotive News.

Nonetheless, he said he sees some exciting opportunities with an American version. “The U.S. is a very enticing market,” Tata told the trade publication. “We are redesigning the Nano for both Europe and the U.S.”

Of course, Tata thought there’d be plenty of growth in India, as well, where the potential population of motorists ranks second only to China. The executive dreamed up the idea of what is little more than a plastic-bodied scooter after seeing whole families crowd onto two-wheelers.

But sales have lagged well behind expectations – apparently in part due to some much-publicized fires and other safety issues that have forced a number of recalls and modifications.

The maker promises to have things more in shape for the more demanding American market once it gets here – though precise timing hasn’t been announced.

The question is how much all that will cost. From the Indian base of around $3,500 speculation suggests the Tata Nano might be bumped up to as much as $10,000 in the States. The question is whether at that price it will be able to gain traction against markedly better-equipped Asian and American models with more familiar nameplates and better reputations.

Here is a LINK to the add. http://autos.yahoo.com/news/tata-bri...-the-u-s-.html