8-T Option Team BCP

[Njord]

I amn a lucky guy who has the honour to work with Vittorio Moroni of Fioroni (www.fioroni.com) on a series of brushless conversion kits and parts for pro-level brushless racing.
Setups are made with taking in consideration all things that are important to gain the most optimal setup. The right left/right front/rear weight bias. A center weight point as low as possible and for improved handling getting all the weight as much in middle line of the chassis. Breaks are mechanical for gaining a higher electric efficiency.
After getting the optimal setup for the 8ight. Setups for the RC8, MBX5R, MBX6, 8-t are ready now and Vittorio is working now on all other pro-level buggies and truggies. First truggy to come next in a week is the RC8T, also the work on the Kyosho ST-RR is coming to a finish. Same for MP9 and D8.

Here pictures of the first conversion of a 8-T under the Option Team BCP (brushless conversion Pro) label of Fioroni. Electric setup is tekno neu 1515 3D, MGM 160 A Z-series, 6s2p 4400 (kokam lipo in saddlepack setup).

[Njord]

More pictures....

[magman]

Interesting...A lot of machine/cc work in those parts! Looks like battery size is limited....?

[lutach]

Nice conversion.

[Njord]

Originally Posted by magman

Interesting...A lot of machine/cc work in those parts! Looks like battery size is limited....?

The battery size is limited by the length. For most of the truggy Option Team BCP's this is 16 cm. For most buggy version's this is 12 cm, some 13 cm. We use the standard 10 cm lipo's (2200 and 2400 mAh cells) that can be build up till 6 - 8s each side of a buggy and 8-10s max each side of truggy. We use Kokam cells and also cells used for the welknown budget 'zippyline'. The 10 cm cells are used and sold a lot for heli and plain applications. Compared with the cells used for 1:10 car applications they are much cheaper when you compare on C rating and capacity.

The saddlepack shown at te pictures gives a 6s2p 4800 mAh combination and not 4400 mAh as I mentioned earlier. Runtime with 6s2p 4400 mAh zippy is approx 30-35 minutes on the 8-t in competition races. For my 8-t I have also a 6s 2p 8000 mAh zippy based lipo setup. Length of the packs is 15 cm. I will try this out coming weekend. I also hope to have somebody to make a vid of the running.
Runntime with a 6s2p 4800 mAh kokam lipo setup is 40 minutes at my 8ight buggy. With a 3600 mAh setup it is 25 minutes.

For the best handling of a buggy or truggy the weight needs to be centered to middle of the chassis. Also left/right and front/rear weight distribution is important, even far more important than the total weight of buggy or truggy. Also a low weight center is positive.
By that all setups with a accu (lipo or a123) on 1 side or 2 near the chassisguards far outside the center will give a handling (taking corners or jumping stable and fluently) that is less than of a nitroversion. The goal was to be at least on par with nitro, so a good and well balanced set up that can compete with the highest level setups of nitro. It is for that reason that we looked further than the lipo packs normally used. The result is on one aspect in fact better than all the original nitro setups. The center weight of all setups is lower than the original nitro setups what gives a better handling in taking corners.

Vittorio Moroni of Fioroni is a well known topspecialist in this work. He has build up the MP777 of Pavidis for the worlds 2006 and was his pitmate (both are good friends). In fact the MP777 was build up with 7076 alu parts and diffs made by Fioroni and not by Kyosho, only the plastic was original Kyosho. The buggy that won the worlds 2004 (by french driver Guillame Vray) was also build, prepared and supported by Vittorio.. For that I learn every day a lot from him. I made Vittorio enthousiast to work on brushless setup because I knew that he is one of the real topspecialists in the world that can realy make a top level and clean high competitive setup. I take care for the electric part of the setups of the OT BCP's.

I am also working on a start up of brushless 1:8 competition (Netherlands, Belgium and western part of Germany - Nord Rhein Westfahlen) and a brushless 'semi' pro team. Already contracted the NL and B champs 1:10 electro offroad for this team. The last Truggy race of this year was the first for Arthur Eehlen (B) and although he drove nitro because the OT BCP's was 'secret' project at that moment he directly took the victory....

I have added a picture of a GPS unit used at a run at a soccerfield. Gearing was 15/48. In a street run the 8-T did 87 km/h.

[rschoi_75]

It looks very nice. Will you have other esc mounting options as well? I ask because most of us use castle creations esc's.

The battery trays look nice, but I'd like to see pics w/ out the lipos installed. Do they sit directly on the chassis or is there some type of padding between the lipo and chassis?

[Njord]

There are special mounts for MM, MMM and other esc's. I will make a picture and will post that tomorrow (it is dark at this moment and i do not want to make a picture using the flash).

We prefer the MGM compro ESC's. MGM compro's are made in Europe service and contacts are direct. Also waterproof what is a big advantage for the 'real offroad' work. We test MGM compro Z-series and give MGM compro feedback. Feedback on all data collected with the blackbox and experience as drivers we gather by running on several tracks. The Dvorsky's are taking notice of this and improve the firmware of the esc's with this information. Problems are solved in a few day's. This gives a good feeling. It is for this reason why we only run MGM compro's at this moment. Although we are not 'married' with MGM compro. If there is something interesting new and good we will test and if it is better we will use it.
We have tested a few MMM v2 version (10 exactly...) 6 of them got 'killed' very quickly
(same type of problems as posted by others in treaths on this forum). Later I 'modded' the 4 that where still alive (fan taken of and BEC dissambled) and they work good so far for the boys that we gave these. Although a esc should work directly good and mods should not be needed... Might be that I will try a V3 version in january. I follow the information others post. One of our drivers tested a new Xceleron of Losi but it is not an improvement... (understatement). I hope and expect that Tekin will enter the 1:8 market with a real good ESC. Time will tell. The more good ones there are on the market the better it is for the hobby.

We also run medusa afterburners v2 now with impressive results. The 70 and 80 mm versions (although it are prototypes we received) do a real good job at the truggies.

I will post a picture of the battery tray also tomorrow. We use a special padtype used also in the 1:1 car industrie on the chassis. It absorbes shocks, protects and prevents lipo's from moving/sliding. I do not know the english name for the pad. Might be that people will recognise them by looking at the picture.

[Arct1k]

Did you remove the front brace with this design?

[Njord]

Originally Posted by Arct1k

Did you remove the front brace with this design?

The original front brace has been removed and replaced with another brace that was not mounted at the moment the pictures are made. Pictures were made before the first runs. The original brace does not fit at a 8ight or 8-t because of the position of the diff and the motormount. At all other buggies and truggies with 'more straight' lined driving train the original braces can be used.
I will ad apicture of the brace with the other requested detail pictures tomorrow. I need decent daylight for making close up pictures.

[othello]

Nice work. Represents my favorite brushless setup too (rotated center Diff with battery packs behind it on each side and motor on the front left position ... but for simplicity i use motorbrakes as i'm not racing).

>Runtime with 6s2p 4400 mAh zippy is approx 30-35 minutes on the 8-t in competition races

When calculating with 4200mah taken out of the packs and a runtime of 30 minutes, your average Amp draw is at very low 8.4A translating to aprox 8.4Ax3.7Vx6s = 186 Watt average. And this is without using regenerative braking ... impressive but i must admit hard to believe. Must be a very technical track, combined with an apropriate driving style where every mAh is put into traction and not spinning tires.

With a "rounder" driving style i need around 300-350 Watt average on a wider looser track (truggy for sure is heavier then yours as i'm using A123 cells). With an agressive driving style i end up needing around 500 Watt average.

Good to hear you are satisfied with MGM ESCs for racing. Would be interesting to see some MGM black box data (graphs).

@stum
Front/Rear balance should not be an issue with this setup (on the contrary) as the motor + 2 servos + receiver + ESC are positioned in the front. Those components will counterwheigh both lipos (6s2p 4400mAh). Of course it will depend on the weight of the lipos. This problem would also arise with your setup but would affect your right/left balance.

[stum]

Originally Posted by othello

@stum
Front/Rear balance should not be an issue with this setup (on the contrary) as the motor + 2 servos + receiver + ESC are positioned in the front. Those components will easely counterwheigh both lipos (6s2p 4400mAh). Of course it will depend on the weight of the lipos. This problem would also arise with your setup but would affect your right/left balance.

Keep in mind the battery sits more centered on the chassis, the center diff is offset and it's hard to see from that angle in the photo. The 1515 is way out the other side and has the v3 motor mount and plates for weight (diff and servo's too). The MMM is just off center on the motor side as well evening things out more. The l/r is great as long as I keep it 5s 5000 or less (660grams).

[stum]

Man it looks that thing will be wicked heavy on the rear end, those lipo's (6s 4400) will weigh a lot more than the Neu and esc up front counteracting the weight.. it could just be the shots though, get a wider shot w/ the entire truck wheels and all posted if you could. It is a very interesting design, and looks very pretty, but I think a modified tekno v3 still gets 'best 8t conversion of the year' award far racers. I guess we'll see as some people get some and test though. Please update end users with results :)

Where is the radio box? Water proof?

PS you won't get a full 30minutes in an 8t on a 6s 4400 pack racing.. id bet closer to 20min-22min max, but I love some video proving otherwise :) Well maybe if you were geared for 35mph max

Here is what I did w/ my tekno v3 kit.. ESC is on a plate and elevated (well protected from damage), and in the front I have water tight rx box w/ the transponder on the inside. (Note: all MM, MMMs are coated and pretty well water resistant, the fan on the MMM is not and the usb on the mm is not so cover those and you are set if you are in wet conditions)

[tom255]

What is weight of truggy? At first look it looks comlicated :) wow, strange unusual solution. How simple or hard maintenance? Definatly interesting conversion!

[Njord]

@Stum + Othello: We run on 2 tracks. Can indeed be described as 'very technical'. So far the data have all been exported to Excel. I will make a print of one of our next runs. The blackbox gives quite a lot of interesting information. Only minus is the temp sensor. It doesn't work on all the 5 blackboxes we have... Has been reported to MGM.

@Stum: I have had the 8 and 8-t version of the Tekno V3 version conversion since approx half july and sold them both 3 weeks ago. My friends (2 also had a V3 8ight) and I also mounted the ESC near the motormount. We mounted a selfmade esc-plate using the screwholes on top of the v3 motormount as you did. For right/left getting in balance I used a 4400 6s lipo. Will be abouth the same weight as your 5s 5000. I have enjoyed them very much, nice clean setups and good quality. I also drive the nitro versions and by that can compare the handling on the track quite good between the V3 - nitro and BCP. The V3 has a completely different handling caracteristic compared with the nitro's. By that it is as close to a 8ight than the MP777's I ran till last winter. Both good buggies but I prefer the 8ight.... The BCP is very close to the original. Caracteristics of the brushless motor makes the real difference.
Weight is more to the center diff than to the rear. The center diff is not in the middle of the chassis but more to the front. The front of the saddlepack starts at the mount of the centerdiff. Is no issue. Also other capacities will not influence the left/right bias. I will make other pictures that might make this more visuable.
The receiver is mounted in plastic box (waterproof) under the servo tray. Can partly been seen in one of the pictures.

@Tom255. I will have to put it on the weightscale. I haven't weighted so far. It 'feels' the same as my nitro. I always have looked to the weight as an important factor in a setup. I learned from Vittorio that the first thing to look at is the weightdistribution. That makes 95%, the extra weight you can get of makes the other 5% and can make a difference on pro driver level. Since the 'maestro' told me this and because I am not a pro driver I do not look to the weight anymore and concentrate on other things. Tyre choice, shocks have the most influence next to some variations in the diffoil depending on the track (high speed or technical) with the basic that comes with the racerollers and kits.

[stum]

Could you make the diff bracket have a joint from the rest of the battery bracket to make for easier diff repair/work ? Just a thought..

How about a photo w/o batteries (someone else also mentioned)
How about a shot of that rx box

Thanks!!

Here is a link to my local track (one of them) that I race at - this is a pro-series track as well.
Sorry this is me racing my erevo though, not the 8t, and it was one of my first real races. I really just got into racing this year as I had no idea where a track was near me so I was pretty ecstatic to learn of this one. Anyway I have improved dramatically from this vid but it's still not bad.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP4l4QEMB2Y