MMM Motor timing and best efficiency for 4 poles motor

[nuz69]

Hello guys,
I have a general questions about the motor timing for the Castle Monster motors. They are 4 poles motor.
In Europe, people think that for a 4 poles motor, the best timing for max efficiency is around 5-6, but we can read in this forum that best efficiency is reached when timing is at 0.
==> Can someone qualified (maybe Castle Staff ???) can confirm or argue this point ?
I though that for a multipoles motor (like align 6 poles) the timing have to be between 15 and 20, if the timing is too low, this motor has heat issues...
Thx ;)

[BrianG]

It also matters if the coil configuration is Delta (also called "D" or "triangle") or Wye (also called "Y","star", or "asterisk") wound. Delta wants low timing, while Wye can benefit from higher timing. The Castle motors are all "Y" wound IIRC.

[SpEEdyBL]

Regardless, 0 timing is "supposed" to be the most efficient. I've tried all different timing setups and although there is a little bit more top end with high timing, my lap times are the same or worse. Can't really tell a difference in temps either, but I only run Y winds.

[maneba]

My Neu 1521 with a 0 timing on a MMM does not work! Minimum setting is 5°, 10 is the best. This works also with my medusa 36-80-1600 and my Castle Neu 2200 1515.

[nuz69]

Your neu 1521, is a 1Y ?

[snellemin]

I know with some speed controllers, a higher timing is recommended with 4 pole motors. Hacker suggest 0-5 degrees for their 2 pole motors, with 2 degrees @ 8Khz being the most efficient for their motors. Hacker suggest 8 degrees for 4 pole motors. I run 10-15 degrees on my Y motors. On the D wound motor that I had, I just ran 0 Degrees. On Luciano ESC's I use 16Khz switching frequency for the 4 polers. Quark is set at 38Khz. What is the Castle PWM set at?

So, over the weekend I used 0 degrees timing with a 1512 2y and MMpro with 6s A123 in my Rustler. I then used 15 degrees timing and saw a difference in topend. I can pull wheelies while breaking the tires loose on concrete. I use heavy beadlocks btw. The fan did not come on and the system just ran "cold".

I remember Castle saying something about their ESC being able to automatically adjust timing for their motors, but not exceed the user "set" Timing setting. But I can be wrong with my thinking that though.

[nuz69]

The defaut timing in Castle controler is 10. But I still dont know if it's the most efficient setup with 1515 1Y 4 poles motor... Can someone from Castle Staff answer or ? I will maybe ask the support directly :)

[Pdelcast]

Originally Posted by nuz69

The defaut timing in Castle controler is 10. But I still dont know if it's the most efficient setup with 1515 1Y 4 poles motor... Can someone from Castle Staff answer or ? I will maybe ask the support directly :)

The default timing works very well with a Neu or Castle/Neu motor. Setting the timing lower will reduce top-end, but give a little more efficiency. Setting the timing higher will increase top-end, but give a little less efficiency...

Pretty simple really.

[nuz69]

Ok thanks Patrick.
But the exact number for the most efficient ? 8 ? 7 ? 5? 0?

[Pdelcast]

Originally Posted by nuz69

Ok thanks Patrick.
But the exact number for the most efficient ? 8 ? 7 ? 5? 0?

Timing of about 2-4 will work best with the four pole Neu or Neu/Castle motors. They will accept more timing, but will run a bit hotter.

Well, I wish I could tell you exactly, but it changes based on load, RPM, and voltage. High RPM setups (6S, low load) will get maximum efficiency with a little more timing, low RPM setups will get maximum efficiency with a little less timing.

[nuz69]

OK, thx for your detailed answer ;) Happy to have some technical about it.