Another reason to convert from Nitro - global warming!

[JThiessen]

Over the years here in Seattle area, I've noticed a few things. When I first moved out here in the early 90's, summers were perfect: Highest temp was 80 to 85, it was solid sun from about the 7th of July through September. Winters were a constant drizzle, normally about 50 degrees, with a few half days of snow thrown in.

Its steadily been getting hotter during the summer every year. This year we are setting new records. Its been dry since sometime back in May. First time every to record 100 degrees in Seattle will occur today or tomorrow. Last night was the warmest night ever when it didn't get below 70. This last winter we had sub 20 degrees for several weeks, and three times we had snow that lasted for more than a week.

Now, I know it gets warmer in most of the country, and its more humid in the south and east. But keep in mind that very few out here have A/C in anything but their cars - we just never needed it.

I've never been one to side with the "ecology" minded individuals, but things are starting to show that have my attention a little more...

[Jabe]

You think making lipo batterys is ecological?

[BrianG]

Originally Posted by Jabe

You think making lipo batterys is ecological?

It's gotta be. Even if companies produce enough lipo packs to outfit every car on the planet, the pollutants generated from the process HAS to be less than the sum of the pollutants generated from all those cars on a daily basis.

And I'm not really sold on the whole global warming thing. On one hand, I can understand that our emissions can't be good for the environment, but is it causing as much damage as propaganda would have you believe? I suppose emissions from the dinosaur lifestyle caused their ice age right? I'm sure all those dinos driving around giant size SUVs caused it. I think the vast majority of what is said is pure speculation. Just like if you go to the doctor and find out you have cancer. They scratch their heads wondering why until they learn you are a smoker, and then they automatically say "that must be it". It's an easy answer to a big problem with little actual proof.

[JThiessen]

'nuther thing that kinda got my attention was going to Glacier Nation park last year, and just seeing the difference in the Glaciers from when I was there 9 years ago was amazing - you pretty much have to do overnight hikes to get to where you see any of the glaciers now.

Yeah, its hard to wade through the political arguments for/against it. I'm a skeptical data type person - and it's taken me a while to start thinking that I should look at trying to make some changes. Not certain that I'm taking it serious enough to even touch my truck in any way, but its got me thinking.

[zeropointbug]

There is nowhere near enough lithium on planet earth to make lipo batteries to equip even a fraction of the worlds fleet.

We need something else, some other type of battery, maybe if Europositron ever comes out with their aluminum battery (plenty of aluminum in the earth!), as it is supposedly cheap as dirt to produce, and has energy densities up around 1500Wh/kg! A typical lipo pack we use is around 140 - 150Wh/kg. IIRC, it would cost something like $3000 to have a range of 1000miles in a typical car.

[zeropointbug]

Originally Posted by JThiessen

'nuther thing that kinda got my attention was going to Glacier Nation park last year, and just seeing the difference in the Glaciers from when I was there 9 years ago was amazing - you pretty much have to do overnight hikes to get to where you see any of the glaciers now.

Yeah, its hard to wade through the political arguments for/against it. I'm a skeptical data type person - and it's taken me a while to start thinking that I should look at trying to make some changes. Not certain that I'm taking it serious enough to even touch my truck in any way, but its got me thinking.

Have you guys seen Antarctica the last couple years, huge chunks are breaking off! Some other non-mainstream conforming scientists say that the ice will melt a an increasingly exponential rate than what is commonly accepted... even the accepted time range (forecast) was drastically changed this year, and they think it has to be changed again.

BTW, have you guys heard the rumor that Nasa was withholding evidence that their are pyramids under the ice in Anterctica?

[Modding_out]

You guys have been eating algores BS and watching to much tv. do the research. GLOBAL WORMING IS NATURAL, it's caused by sun spots which are basically really hot freckles on the suns surface. not carbon dioxide.

If you chart c02, earth temperature, and sun spots threw the last 2000 years, suns spots and the earths temp follow each other, co2 actually goes the opposite direction!

You guys are worried about global warming, wasn't there going to be an ice age 30 years ago? look it up, SUN SPOTS! imagine that.......

If you want to argue with me about it, do your research before you bitch.

Also, I do believe that all the emissions laws that they have will help us be good stewards of our planet, but it has NOTHING to do with global warming. Global warming is a farce, it's just some thing algore and a bunch of scientists pulled out of there ass to make money.

[wallot]

global warming will be cancelled by nuclear winter or eventually next ice age

ok seriously now - in 50 years if global warming really happens getting rid of it will cost fraction thanks to advances in technology compared to pathetic atempts to fight it today.

[crazyjr]

Here's my take on things, wether we are in on it or not, we are coming out of an ice age, things will get warmer. from what i have read and seen (History channel, discovery and science channels) It was much warmer in dino day's, so things will get warmer. My take on how we fit is a bit different, we are destroying our environment, but the way they (environmentals ) say. the stuff that destroys the ozone and contribute to global warming are heavier than the air we breathe, While it may contribute to heating, it will displace the air more (molecules over atoms). In order to get them high enough to really cause the warming they are worried about, we either have to displace the air, or blast them up into the upper atmosphere. Only one thing regularly sends greenhouse gasses that high, Volcanoes. We have tall chimneys in industry and jets but they don't do as much as volcanoes supposedly do into the upper atmosphere. Form what i have read and seen, we may be contributing , but are not the primary cause of Global warming. I would like to see electric cars and green energy, but i think we need to research more before buying into the right one

[redshift]

"If you want to argue with me about it, do your research before you bitch"

Hehe, I would, except that you are quite right. And I have....

I'll put this in perspective if I can....

50s, 60s, 70s we heard about the Demon Acid Rain.

80s into the 90s we heard about the Demon CFCs, and how we'd have no Ozone left in howevermanyyears...let's just say according to the #s we'd all be dead as of now...

Sunspots are one cause, and a large one, but not the only one. If you look at data showing the temperatures of all the planets in the Solar System, their temps rise and fall with striking parallels to Earth's.

Now, unless China is exporting all their melamine laden crap to all the other planets, I'm afraid the gw Demon is completely moot.

Some more interesting tidbits.. Methane is more a greenhouse gas than is CO2... the gw scare is all about YOU accepting either a carbon tax, or carbon 'credits' will become the new monetary standard.

Simply stated, it's all about more control over you folks, and in order to sell you on the carbon BS, they need to perpetually try to scare the crap out of you, which is of course only adding to the methane problem.

There is literally almost NOTHING we can do, and keep this in mind-
when Mt. St. Helens erupted in May of 1980, it produced more carbon than the whole of the human Industrial Revolution.

That is ONE volcano. One eruption.

I can go on with more indisputable evidence, google "30,000 scientists disagree with global warming"

And yes, Modding, Al Gore owns shares to at least one of the corporations that you and I would be paying our carbon taxes to.... I challenge anyone to explain how a carbon tax would benefit anyone but the other shareholders, and of course, good ol' Gubmint.

Don't fall for it people.

I'll add one more thing, I am not using the above as an excuse to do nothing. I strongly believe we can make our own bit of difference, but do it for the right reasons, the right way.

IF Anyone wants more info, links etc, I will gladly offer em up!

[zeropointbug]

oh yeah, for sure I am and always have been on the same page as you guys about the whole GW BS.

But another point that should be made is that we ARE polluting our earth, industrial chemicals, and endless toxins being thrown around the globe, but his does not contribute the GW, of course.

And yes, the carbon tax is #$#$(% ridiculous! Just the globalist money changers trying to squeeze every penny, and strip us of our freedoms. They are big, highly organized, and highly secretive... working through every organization you can think of, CIA, IRS, Federal Reserve, and have secret groups/societies for the highest members such as 'skull and bones', 'trilateral commission', 'bilderberg group', to name just a few.


Another tid bit, did you know that the top 15 largest container ships in the world right now put out more emissions than ALL the world vehicles. That's insane.

[redshift]

Careful ZP, you are inching dangerously close to 'conspiracy theories' there.

We wouldn't want to scare off all those who believe JFK was killed by a magic bullet... now would we?

[crazyjr]

What i want to know is, If GW is as bad as everyone says, Why not fund this?
http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/20...nthetic-trees/
I think the whole GW movement, is just a few guys that want to control and change every one to their way. The environmentals, aren't backing the link because if we can fix without change, we don't need them( Gore and the environmentals) to lead us to a better life

[Finnster]

Wow, so much misinformation that you'd think you were getting your info from Hugo Chavez, the Saudi Royal Family or one of the other petrodictators or big oil interests spouting some sophistry.

Volcanoes:

Volcanoes are attributed to release 130-230M tonnes of CO2/yr. It is estimated that human activities released 27 B tonnes of CO2 in 2003, and rising every year, for a total of some 329B tonnes CO2 released since 1750. Simple math (worst case 230Mt/yr) gives you equal to over 1500 massive volcanic eruptions since 1750, and it would take over 120 massive eruptions per year to equal to the current rate of CO2 emissions. Basically one every three days. Where are all these massive volcanoes? By what mechanism are all these invisable eruptions increasing over time (as evidenced by the rate of change of CO2 content in the atm)?

A single large volcano has been shown to cause global cooling for a 1-3yr period after the eruption, yet 11 of the 12 hottest years on record have been in the last 12 years. How can this possibly be? Shouldn't we be buried in ash and freezing our asses off with all these volcanoes going off?

Solar activity:

Solar flares & sunspots go on a natural 11 yr cycle and solar output can rise and fall 0.1%, yet we have seen an accelerating increase in global temperatures. How are you associating a short term fluctuation with a longer term trend? How are you completely dismissing the effects of CO2 levels at their highest concentration for at least the last 650,000 years? The massive %increase in less than a century (a geologic instant) is completely unprecedented.
Known solar dimming periods have not been associated with exceptional cool global mean temps. Overall, the effects of sunlight on the planet are not well understood, cannot be predictive of climate effects (unlike CO2 emmisions have) and many studies on insolation have been confusing or contradictory.

Al Gore, Acid rain and Carbon trading:

Al Gore was also once criticized for being a board member of Occidental Petroleum. If he now also owns carbon credits, sounds like he is an investor hedging his bets, or at least putting money where is mouth is. You too can own carbon credits, tho its not doing well and is about to be delisted.

Besides, if AlGore was an all-powerful machvellian hegemon, shouldn't he have won the presidency and not lost to a one-term Texas Governor, whose only accomplishment prior to that had been several bankrupted businesses, alcoholism, and barely graduating college by the skin of his Daddy's endowments?

Its also ironic that the non-threat of acid rain and the stupidity of cap and trade is pointed to, where acid rain was signifigantly reduced by using a cap-and-trade program for sulfoxide, (which is the model for carbon cap and trade,) that reduced emissions 50% and at 10% of the projected cost. Naysayers also warned that it that it wouldn't work and would be a huge tax to energy consumers. huh.

Finnster's Wager:
God knows if CnT is a good idea for co2, China has to sign on or its no dice anyway, and scientific theories have changed or have been disproved in the past. I do know this however:

Risk Matrix: GW is real/not real vs acting/not acting:

I am right, GW and effects are real, we do act: We reduce dependance on oil from hostile foreign countries, avert lg scale sea rise and flooding and the economic damage, costal area impoverishment, and resource wars that are sure to follow, and the US develops green tech and other engery sources that we control and profit from. US trade deficit shrinks.

I am wrong, GW is not real, we do act: We shift to more expensive domestic energy supplies and economic growth may be lessened. 3rd world countries and non-pact signers benefit from cheaper oil costs due to less demand. Oil companies lose profits.

I am right, GW is real, we don't act: Precipitous increase in global temps, erractic climate changes, extreme weather patterns and coastal flooding. Leads to droughts in areas, mass displacement, starvation and economic disruption. Turmoil eventually leads to war, and US and West is blamed for being principal polluters, terrorism follows.

I am wrong, GW is not real, we don't act: We go on our merry way sending billions of dollars overseas to petrodictators as part of our massive trade deficit, we continue resource-security driven foriegn policy, fighting expensive wars and paying large foriegn assistance payments to undemocratic gov'ts to continue to provide diplomatic support and cheap oil exports in volitile areas of the world that are slowly running out of said resource.

Given these choices, not acting in mitigating our FF-based carbon consumption and pollution seems a highly illogical and counter productive decision.

[JThiessen]

Originally Posted by Finnster

Wow, so much misinformation that you'd think you were getting your info from Hugo Chavez, the Saudi Royal Family or one of the other petrodictators or big oil interests spouting some sophistry.


not acting in mitigating our FF-based carbon consumption and pollution seems a highly illogical and counter productive decision.

Well said - rational thought without insulting anyone. I would have re-looked up that info, but spending more than a few minutes with my laptop during the last three days would have been complete misery (the damn thing gets HOT!!!).
Its been the symptoms that have slowly been making me rethink my side on this obviously emotional debate.

BTW, we shattered the old all time high temp here yesterday - 103 being the official high for Seattle at the airport, many outlying areas had up to 110. If only I'd of stocked up on airconditioners last week - could have made a fortune yesterday!