6s vs. 4s?

[georgec]

Recently there have been some guys from Kentucky and Georgia coming to race with us at our local track (great bunch of guys) and all of them have ran 6s with 1400kv motors. A couple of them let me drive their buggies (MBX6) and they did seem to be noticeably smother than my 4s/2000kv setup and their motors all ran 5 to 8 degrees cooler. They didn't seem to be any faster than my setup just smother. All this has made me second guess my setup. Could it be that running higher voltage with a lower kv motors is that much more efficient than lower voltage with higher kv motors??? The overall cost is about the same because the batteries they were running were only 3300mAh as opposed to my 5000mAh and getting the same run time. As for motors they all ran the Tekin 1400kv, witch I don't know much about other than the price isn't bad. The funny thing is all but one ran the MMM esc and only one ran the RX8 esc.
Any input on this

[nitrostarter]

Well the higher voltage and lower kv is a preferred setup. You can run lower mah packs like the 3300mah to get the weight lower. Power and acceleration should all be roughly the same for track usage.

I do know the Tekin motors aren't as notchy either.

You don't have to run the RX8 unless you want to take advantage of the sensored running. Sensored is pretty nice on slow take offs and corner speeds. I'm not totally convinced it will improve anything since the RX8 shifts to sensorless while the rpms increase.

[georgec]

Thanks, I'm trying to come up with ammo to present to the track owners witch have adopted the ROAR 4s rule, but I believe can be swayed if I can prove to them that the only advantage to 6s is efficiency! I'm also on the hunt for a lower kv motor, and so far I have looked at the Tekin 1400kv that is priced at around $150.00 and the CC 1600kv priced at well over $200.00 Last night I came across another motor that Castle is carrying it's their NEU/MR 036/060/1300V5 priced at $119.00 makes it the most affordable. But if I'm reading the #s correctly this motor is only 36mm x 60mm and that seems small for racing. Has anyone here had any experience with these?

I came across another motor that Castle is carrying it's their NEU/MR 036/060/1300V5

Did you find this on CC websight, or Neu? I saw them yesterday on Neu, and looked at CC and did not see them.
IMO the 60 should do fine for a buggy, but that's based on my bashing the 60-2000 in my E-revo with no problems. But if Neu is going to restock all the sizes, they should have a 70 and 80 series coming. You might even be able to find a Medusa 70 around somewhere.

[bdebde]

Luckily my track has no battery rules... I run 6s 2600 with MMM and Neu 1509 2.5y (1450kv) in my Ve8. It is cooler and more efficient than my old 4s buggy. Max on motor has been 140 after two back to back runs. Batteries just get barely warm, and the MMM fan never comes on (except at power up). My old 4s buggy would get 160 on motor after one run.

[florianz]

when running a 6s setup, you have lower amps and higher voltage. as your motor is pulling lower amps, you can have a similar runtime with smaller batteries.

basically, the power is supposed to be the same, but the performance is different. 5 or 6s is kinda smoother. I just love the torque of my 1700/1600kv four-pole motos.

as you're having a high voltage setup, the equipment is running cooler. further, it's easier for the batteries. for 4s setup you need higher quality batteries/higher c rating. like that, 5 or 6s is a bit cheaper, in general you don't need a 30c pack for that.

I've been running a xcelorin 1700kv on 5s for a long time, and now running a medusa 3680-1600kv on 5s. My 20c Turinigy 5s-Lipos never get too warm, power is more then sufficient, and I would never go for 4 s.

[georgec]

It was at the Neu web site long day. The track owner posted a message today stating that if no one in the 1/8th E class objected that it was fine with him to run 6s. I posted a poll and none of the other guys objected, so there goes another 300 bucks

[cornolio]

I've been running 4s setups for about 2 years.I've never had any power,heat problems.all my esc,motors batts still doing fine.should I switch to a 6s setup?

[georgec]

Originally Posted by cornolio

I've been running 4s setups for about 2 years.I've never had any power,heat problems.all my esc,motors batts still doing fine.should I switch to a 6s setup?

It's really just a personal preference, I find that the 6s 1400kv setup is much smother than my 4s 2000/2200kv setups and the higher voltage/lower kv setups constantly run cooler. And it would stand to reason that a motor and battery that is ran cooler will last longer, IMHO

[jzemaxx]

Any of you guys able to make the 20-25mins races in pro level with no batt swaps??? 4S 5000 is done at 12-13mins max....so what has been your solutions??

[Semi Pro]

im running 6cell 2600mah with a 1400kv teken setup on my 8ight and i love it

[georgec]

Yea I'm going the Tekin 1400kv route, everyone I spoke with said that Tekin has worked all the demons out of their motors and if their is a problem they will take care of it.

[lincpimp]

If you go from 4s to 5s, maintain the same overall gearing and run the motors at the same speed the difference is quite noticeable. 6s makes a world of difference.

I have run some heavy vehicles on 4s, and then gone to 8s setups, with half the motor kv, half the amp rated escs and crap batteries wired in series. Even then the difference was noticeable, and my 8s setup cost about half what the 4s setup did (or less). If only we had an available 60 amp 8-10s car esc from castle, I would never run anything lower than 8s..

[kingdomracer]

Right now I have Thunder Power 22c 8000mah 2x2s=4s w/1800kv MMM combo. I get close to 25-30 min. no prob but would like to run more efficient and save some weight w/5s, how do I get the same runtime from lower mah batts. Is there a formula that will calculate the needed size batts? Plus can someone help me understand how is it that with a lower mah which leads to a lower constant for most batts out there (usually right around a 100 amps constant) is a good thing? I've been lead to believe that if my MMM is rated at 120 then I should make sure my batts are at the lowest 150, I don't see that same rule applying in a 3300mah batt with a much lower constant amp rating. I thought when you buy a lipo it should be based on 80% of the motor rated amp draw. I hope I made sense and I will not take any offense If I'm confused in my thinking. Plus it would help for the guys who are running the 5s and 6s 1600kv-1800kv setups to post their runtimes. Thankz!

[stum]

Originally Posted by lincpimp

If you go from 4s to 5s, maintain the same overall gearing and run the motors at the same speed the difference is quite noticeable. 6s makes a world of difference.

I have run some heavy vehicles on 4s, and then gone to 8s setups, with half the motor kv, half the amp rated escs and crap batteries wired in series. Even then the difference was noticeable, and my 8s setup cost about half what the 4s setup did (or less). If only we had an available 60 amp 8-10s car esc from castle, I would never run anything lower than 8s..

If you maintain the gearing you will need to have additional mah on the 5s setup as it will burn mAH just as fast as the 4s setup.. the point of higher voltage is not to increase speed, in fact you must gear down to see any benifits at all - temps, runtime etc. only show if you keep the speed the same as the other setup.

Also keep in mind going to a 6s setup you pretty much rule yourself out of any 'large event' only local club level play will allow this. With that said the only way you will feel any difference as far as performance goes "smoothness or torque power" is if you have batteries or an ESC that cant handle the amp load your throwing at it on the lower voltage setup. You may shave a couple degree's off as well w/ higher voltage but with a MMM combo or tekin combo you'll never have heat issues anyway.. I even ran a Medusa 60mm 2000kv on 4s as my primary motor for a full season of racing with ZERO issues. I currently run a 1y combo geared at 13t or less (depending on track size) and use Hyperion lipo's; 5k and 5.5k packs. I also use to run a 5s 1700kv (2.5d) setup in my 8ight truggy and have since swapped back down to a 1y combo, and I run 6500mAH hyperions in this setup and I have a 9000mAH pack for 30+ minute amains. Again no issues running at all.. with both systems running the 1y it makes it easy for me to swap out motors ecs's w/o any hassle if I do run into issues (havn't yet, knock on wood).