So what's with UE?

[Procharged5.0]

Nice looking truck Al!

Thanks for sharing the pics!

[captain harlock]

No problem, Pro!=)

[ClodMaxx]

wow - nice truck al!

sorry to hear about the wheels - i'd be bummed! i'm keeping my SMRW for show only, and the pro-line's for running.

[squeeforever]

Originally Posted by Duster_360

Copycats that scab his ideas and sell them for cheaper prices than he can cause they cut corners he won't. It frosts him to see these guys be successful like FLM.

Why would it frost him to see a company like FLM to thrive? It makes no sense. There parts aren't really similar, aside from the VBS/FLM Hybrid thing, which even then, its not really that similar. Now Integy, theres no denying that, but I'd figure they paid him for the Racer X rip off...

[Procharged5.0]

Originally Posted by squeeforever

Why would it frost him to see a company like FLM to thrive? It makes no sense. There parts aren't really similar, aside from the VBS/FLM Hybrid thing, which even then, its not really that similar. Now Integy, theres no denying that, but I'd figure they paid him for the Racer X rip off...

The last time I spoke with Robin he said the legal cost to fight the Integy knock offs of his products was too costly. Add in the "international" factor and you can see he'd probably invest $15,000- $20,000 on a legal retainer just to get started.

F'ing Chinese!

[ClodMaxx]

Originally Posted by squeeforever

Why would it frost him to see a company like FLM to thrive? It makes no sense. There parts aren't really similar, aside from the VBS/FLM Hybrid thing, which even then, its not really that similar. Now Integy, theres no denying that, but I'd figure they paid him for the Racer X rip off...

the FLM hybrids......the FLM multi-point adjustable shock towers...the FLM chassis is very, very similar to the Lightning...etc.

not as *direct* of a copy as the Integy crap, but FLM makes everything much cheaper b/c they cut corners. yet they sell a lot more than UE b/c people who don't know any better (or might, who knows) don't want to pay UE prices.

plus, FLM is about as direct a competitor as it gets. although most parts may be fairly different in design, it's the same replacement parts, same materials, for the same vehicles.

The 4 point chassis brace design as an idea belongs to UE, nobody had thought of that before UE. ClodMaxx has mentioned some other items already. Everything UE has done has been to look at each of teh critical components of the platform and engineer them thoroughly so you get breakage free top performance, Super 6, CVDs, 6 & 8 spyder diffs, 4 point braces and so on. That takes time in development and that costs money. Those costs go into parts pricing otherwise you go out of business or revert to parts that don't perform as well.

UE could shut them down legally if he had spent big bucks and the time to get his stuff patented, but he saw it as a no-win deal and since business has been declining (RC parts side) looks like he made the right call. Besides, as pointed out there is spotty to non-existent patent enforcement if you're making the stuff outside the US.

Another that really has caused a serious rant from Robin was ACNCM - they started their business with a gov't loan that Robin couldn't qualify for since he's native born citizen. They are Indian IIRC, and started knocking off UE stuff immediately. ALl these knockoffs use 6061-T6 and not teh 7075-T6 like UE uses. I don't know if its because its cheaper (it is cheaper and its weaker too) or to try and avoid too much direct infringement. I guess thats one of the corners they all tend to cut.

I worked in retail early on in college, and one thing you learn is the public has no end to their gaul. There is nothing somebody won't ask to do or ask to have and usually expects for free! I've seen someone post a quest on UE forum about why UE stuff wouldn't fit right with FLM pieces (early on when flm was having bugs in their hybrid diffs). He seems to have finally learned to just ignore it, but come on, that's pretty low class. Like its his fault someone who is copying his designs in the first place aren't getting the holes in the right places!!

I watched UE store stock deplete down to near nothing also like a dolt. Like Jim Mora used say "woulda, coulda, shoulda done something!!" Doh!!

[GorillaMaxx360]

one question for you captain. i have the ue shock setup(4) on my maxx and mine is a bit heaver than yours (probably more than a bit, FLM chassis 2 6 cell side by side, single speed, ect...). how do you like those springs are they a bit soft are they just right how are they for jumping. I am using blue in front and black in back and it is a tad stiff but it can take a good 5ft drop to concrete with out bottoming out. is this sound to stiff. what are your opinions. thanks

[squeeforever]

I understand what ya'll are saying, but I wouldn't really say FLM is ripping off UE designs. Yea, they came out with the Hybrids, but they don't do anything except increase strength and allow 1/8th diffs. The VBS changes so much its not even funny. Personally, I don't think they really ripped UE off on that one. I mean hell, 5 years ago, long before I even knew of UE I was sitting there wondering why nobody thought of making the diffs/bulks one piece like alot of 1/8ths and like the Dominator (I think its the Dom). Besides, the shock towers, I don't really think you can say that was ripping off UE either. Its not like there the first company to come out with a shock tower that has more than a couple holes...The G1 shock towers had like 12 and that was several years ago. Granted, the 4 point chassis design is more of less a UE design, so it appears, but does the Dace Predator chassis have the same design as well?? Just my 2 cents...

[captain harlock]

Nice debate, really( so long as we are not going to get hotheaded).
I myself do not consider FLM is spoiling UE's work. The FLM chassis, suspension, bulks and so forth are a direct replications( well, somewhat). The Hybrids are merely the Maxx's normal gear cases and bulkheads fused together, but slightly bigger to hold the 1/8 diffs.

The UE parts are simply incredible and sometimes I just think they're too much to be used in racing with all the overline workmanship and precision.
I'm only sorry that I got it and figuered out it's a HUGE waste of money to drive away all the shininess of the UE parts in a few runs. They're tougher than anything out there, but it's even tougher to scratch them and make them grimmy......no wonder Serum sold his RacerX, no wonder Papa sold his SuperMaxx, and no wonder if I'm going to sell mine as well.
Too cute to beat them..=(

[captain harlock]

GM360,
I use red springs for the rear and white for the front. I do not make jumps with my truck, so I have no worries.
I think you should use four shocks for each end with reds and whites and some slightly heavy weight oil.

[GorillaMaxx360]

thanks
i will consider the four shocks for my ride. but for now i want to get it running so my funds are shifting twards my last 5 items (high temp pads, strobe, spur gears, pinions, and neu motor) but after it is running i will consider this.

[ssspconcepts]

Originally Posted by Procharged5.0

I think someone like Mike or Jamie should buy the rights to the Supermaxx designs. I'd consider it myself but I have no way of producing the products even with the designs. I'd have to contract it all out. I don't have enough time or cashflow to undertake a project of that magnitude at this time in my life. I like to, but I can't.

Your best guess...what would it cost? Where could the parts be produced?

[Procharged5.0]

Since the UE parts are essentially "Intellectual Property" IE: Engineering Designs, R&D, CNC Machine Programs and not something with an established market value (or something tangible like actual product or 7075 bar stock) it's pretty hard to say. My wife values businesses for a living so I could ask her for her professional "guesstimate" on this but without her researching into the value of proprietary designs or info from Robin it might be pretty tough to get a good answer to that question.

As far as reproducing them goes, that would be less of an issue. Locating a contract machine shop with appropriate machining & production capabilities would be no big deal (I have connections with Rousch Racing for example. They have massive high performance 5-Axis machining centers). Having the finances to contract them for building the product, or investing in a great enough number of parts to make the cost-per-unit value acceptable is another story.

[lincpimp]

It seems that aside from a small group of hardcore enthusiasts, (myself included) the maxx trucks are becoming less popular. I know that general sales are down, trucks like the Revo and the move to truggies cut into the sales of the Maxx series. Traxxas have tried to keep it going, by updating the Maxx (nitro, at least). I guess UE had more demand, and sales when the Maxx dominated the nitro market, lets face it, more people run nitro than electric. It is a shame, cause UE made the best of the best, sure you had to pay for it, but at least it was available.