Kinetic/Ballistic Systems - RC-Monster Forums

NovakTwo · **Kinetic/Ballistic Systems -** 10.23.2009, 12:15 PM

Here is the press release for our upcoming Kinetic/Ballistic racing systems:

Energy in Motion

lutach · 10.23.2009, 03:43 PM

Nice to finally see Novak with new technology. Now, enough with the 540A rating. You guys should be the leader and start educating people. Do this, people like datasheet spec and there's a rating there which you can follow. Lets say you have 6 FETs per phase in a H bridge configuration that means 3 FETs should be calculated to get a AMP rating. Now if the FETs you're using has a Continuous Drain Current (TA) (ST Micro don't seem to use it), but lets use the 38A rating of the stk38n3llh5, that would give you a 114A rating and we all know the ESC can't dissipate that much heat. Use that as the maximum continuous burst, meaning it'll give that AMP rating everything one slams on the throttle. If it's marketing for the uneducated cool, but I really like honest looking specs and that's why Tekin and Castle gets my money. There are worst out there so you're not alone. To be honest, I would basically like something that can do 40A+ average throughout a race than anything and incase the sensor plug comes off, I would like to keep on going in sensorless mode instead of doing nothing.

Finnster · 10.23.2009, 04:19 PM

540A is pretty silly when the lowest turn motor is only rated at 85A. Hard to take things serious w/ specs like that.

G/L anyways. Whats the price?

lincpimp · 10.23.2009, 08:08 PM

Interesting, race tech I guess. This stuff always makes me laugh, 2s max, motors rated by turns (not really the best way to rate a motor, unless they all use the identical construction, and then there is no benefit one brand from another), and other "spec" racing features.

The 540amp rating is funny too.

JThiessen · 10.23.2009, 08:14 PM

Yeah, this is kinda the wrong forum to get any excitement out of these - unless its a precursor to what might be coming to replace the HV system.

What's_nitro? · 10.23.2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lincpimp

The 540amp rating is funny too.

Hey Linc, now you have another ESC option for that dual 1527 GST you're building...

In all seriousness I like Novak's stuff. I had a HV4400 in my Rustler years ago and it was sweet. Really the only thing I could do without is that ridicuous current rating. Please?

NovakTwo · 10.24.2009, 10:42 AM

Tough crowd here.......

snellemin · 10.24.2009, 11:00 AM

Good to see PC programmability. Is this ESC marketed towards the 1s-2s limit only? And does it support sensorless yet?

lutach · 10.24.2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NovakTwo

Tough crowd here.......

Not being tough at all NovakTwo. Just like to be realistic and since Novak wants to be considered the leader in the Hobby, Novak should start setting some examples. This ratings game is over. This ESC probably has 18 FETs total correct? If so my calculation should be correct if you guys use the best ST Micro MOSFET or maybe you guys use some other PolarPAK style MOSFET from Vishay? The Vishay SiE874DF which is a 20V MOSFET has a TA rating of 52A at 25C degrees and if I use my calculation that should be a 156A rating, but we all know this little devices will never be able to dissipate so much heat if one actually sees 100A+ average. I would like to see some real world specs you know.

How do you guys come up with your ratings? Do you multiply 18 MOSFETs with 30A? If that's the way, I'm sorry to say it, but it's wrong. If you like to go with a 30A MOSFET then the max cont. burst should only be limited to 90A, but for a very short instant one can actually see a higher number depending on the voltage, motor, gearing, vehicle weight, rolling resistance, traction, tire size, aerodynamics and .....(Did I miss anything).

NovakTwo · 03:40 PM

C & P from the press release:

Quote:

540 Amps @ 25°C trans. temp. (brushless),

1,620 Amps @ 25°C trans. temp. (brushed)

Transistor's rating at 25 C junction temp for brushless escs, specification is per each phase of brushless motor (3)

BrianG · 10.24.2009, 03:55 PM

Novak, I don't people are trying to kick you in the jewels, it's just that some here are quite technical and know that 540A is a pretty tall order. Sure, it looks nice on the adverts, but many people "in the know" might see that as deliberately misleading the customer. And, in business, if people think you are trying to mislead them, it could reduce credibility. Perception might as well be fact.

Like Lutach said, these controllers are H bridge config which means that the current rating should be 1/6 of the current of all FETs lumped together. I am glad that you do specify the temperature, but for future reference, it may be better to rate them according to their normal operating temps. I don't know about you, but I highly doubt the FETs in any system are operating at 77*F unless being run on a cold winter day lol.

Anyway, thanks for the heads up on the new product line.

JERRY2KONE · **Feedback. -** 10.24.2009, 04:35 PM

Great feedback guys. I am sure he never expected that when he posted up in here. Like stated Novaktwo there are a lot of guys on this forum who know their stuff when it comes to electronics/ESC's from R/C experiences and also techinical training. This is why we are all in here, to learn from the guys who konw what the real deal is. So considering what has been said so far what kind of feedback do you have for us to learn from about this new gear that you are so proudly marketing??? What can it really do??

lutach · 10.24.2009, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NovakTwo

C & P from the press release:

540 Amps @ 25°C trans. temp. (brushless),

1,620 Amps @ 25°C trans. temp. (brushed)

Transistor's rating at 25 C junction temp for brushless escs, specification is per each phase of brushless motor (3)

NovakTwo,

This is just absurd information my friend. I posted the continuous AMP rating of the FET at 25°C temp. and I posted the correct way of rating the ESC. The way Novak seems to be rating the ESC is multiplying the amount of FETs by the AMP rating (18 x 30 = 540), but that's wrong. Give me your thoughts on current lipo rating? It's great that you can finally use something other than the one touch set up to fine tune the ESC, but drop the over rating please, a lot of people will respect the brand even more.

If Novak still wants to use such rating, please offer some proof to back it up.

NovakTwo · 10.24.2009, 08:23 PM

We have never claimed that this current rating applied to the speed control, itself.

This transistor info, (that we have been posting for decades in our BL esc spec chart,) is the transistor rating taken from the technical info sheets provided by the MOSFET manufacturers.

We have never claimed it to be anything other than that. But, I will forward these comments to Bob and Adnan.

NovakTwo · 10.24.2009, 08:33 PM

If you have specific questions about the Kinetic, post them here and I will have Bob prepare responses.

I am not part of the Engineering/Technical group so I forward all tech questions to folks who have the answers.

Bob is flying home from iHobby, as I type

Quote:

Originally Posted by JERRY2KONE

Great feedback guys. I am sure he never expected that when he posted up in here. Like stated Novaktwo there are a lot of guys on this forum who know their stuff when it comes to electronics/ESC's from R/C experiences and also techinical training. This is why we are all in here, to learn from the guys who konw what the real deal is. So considering what has been said so far what kind of feedback do you have for us to learn from about this new gear that you are so proudly marketing??? What can it really do??