Are Zippy Lipos safe with a Castle MMM Speedy? - Page 10 - RC-Monster Forums

BrianG · 03.03.2009, 06:01 PM

Patrick, just require users to take an IQ test prior to purchase (or honoring warranty claims) and do not sell to anyone with a result lower than 100. Should weed out the inbreeders.

JThiessen · 03.03.2009, 06:21 PM

This is very similar to auto makers and recommendations on fuel. They will not tell you which brands are good/bad, but in some cases you are informed on what octane level to use (minimum 89 or 92). And we all know that at some point in time, you have put 87 in that tank....."nobody will ever know"....! Castle as a company, has to reserve the right to evaluate a situation to the best of their ability, and determine a failure root cause. Yes, 90% of the time its the idiot on the other end of the credit card. I've been that idiot, and likely will be again. And while I may be frustrated with a seemingly low amount of information available to me, I will be able to understand the warranty limitations.

Finnster - I too feel for the average shmo buying a Flux or ERBL from a hobby shop. The knowledge base in hobby shops is typically so low, I can only imagine what type of battery systems a sticker shocked soccer mom is going to buy for her spoiled yup-yup son, let alone what Venom chrger are they going to end up with for that pair of Trackpowers (assuming they pop for some of the better, more common packs LHS carry). I'd be a little concerned if I were CC, HPI, or Traxxas.

BTW, This has actually been a very informative thread for me to read, despite the obvious frustrations some are having.

Unsullied_Spy · 06:35 PM

Back off the timing/gearing and the low grade stuff usually works fine.

lincpimp · 03.03.2009, 06:29 PM

I think we need to keep in mind that the flux and erbl are "step up" vehicles... So most urchasers have some idea about electric rc prior to getting them. Most are not going to drop close to a grand if they do not know what they are getting into.

I do agree that the instructions should have sme sort of "gearing while testing" info that would accompany using a temp gauge. Something well written like the traxxas nitro break in instructions. Baseline info for gearing could be attached, along with the formulas (or a link to BG's site) to calculate speed and gearing... This is about the only way to work around the various falsly claimed lipos.

CC does provide a pinion with the monster combos, I am guessing it is an 18t or so, to give good all around performance in an emaxx or erevo...

Hpi's manual is quite poor, and really needs to address the gearing a bit more. Std gearing advice is necessary, such as start low, and temp frequently.

lincpimp · 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unsullied_Spy

Don't buy Shell gas and you'll be OK

Back off the timing/gearing and the low grade stuff usually works fine.

We must be related somehow, I hate Shell gas too... I also notice that Shell is always more expensive than exxon, despite exxon producing better results...

Lee Estingoy · 03.03.2009, 06:46 PM

Are there that many newbies starting out with a $1k brushless truck? What ever happened to working your way up to the big toys?

Lee

JThiessen · 03.03.2009, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Estingoy

Are there that many newbies starting out with a $1k brushless truck? What ever happened to working your way up to the big toys?

Lee

Sadly, I know of several myself that would go out and drop 1K on something that will impress their friends. They dont look at it as something that they need to learn and understand - its simply the biggest, baddest, fastest thing the drone behind the counter sells. The same sales guy that sells a rustler to a kid while telling him that "yeah it will run fine in grass" will also sell one of these with no questions asked.

I know quite a few RC'ers that have never looked at information online for the hobby. They rely completely on what their LHS tells them. When I ask them questions, they get that same blank look that my LHS guys give me when I ask them about certain products we here know in depth.

Linc, I think you may be on to something with your idea on the "tuning" instructions. Knowledge is power.

09:44 PM

This is all great stuff... somewhat dis-heartening, but good stuff. I would consider myself a newbie, with SOME experience. I purchased an E-Firestorm and dropped in a Castle 5700 (with NIMH), followed that with a nitro PE, then an E-Revo (stock), then an 18R and added the brushless and a LIPO... THEN, bought the big boy (for me), the CC MM Combo for the E-Revo. Having the Firestorm and the 18R as brushless, yes, they prepare you some what for the bigger truck, but there is no way I would have had the desire (and possibly the need to) view a forum or a thread such as this. It wouldn't have been relevant. The cars and motors on the smaller stuff is much more "disposable" if that is fair. As stated above, now that there is a grand into this car... I'm going to make damn sure I'm doing some research. There should be a huge disclaimer that, a. you need to know what your doing, and b. you need to know what your doing. I have Zippy's with all stock gearing (19/68) and I'm increadibly concerned that my batteries may now kill my ESC. From the sound of this thread, if that happens, that's just too bad for me. If you read the misc threads found here and on other forums (tx), numerous people are geared up much higher than I am... and promoting it. If you are a newbie and reading and trusting these forums, you're destine to destroy these parts.

My two cents.

I do appreciate the knowledge in this forum as well as the responses from Castle and those users that have the experience and the electrical knowledge to back it up.

lincpimp · 03.03.2009, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JThiessen

Linc, I think you may be on to something with your idea on the "tuning" instructions. Knowledge is power.

Yep. You have that right big guy!

I can safely say that there are not many inexpensive 4s lipos that can run a monster combo... Unless you plan to parallel a pair of 4s 3000+mah 20c lipos...

5s and lower gearing is a much better choice for the 2200 motor, as it opens up some pack choices. 6s I am not so sure about. Spins the motor a bit faster than I like, but I guess it is ok. With 6s and lower gearing I am sure a pair of 5000mah 20-25c 3s lipos wil do fine.

RC-Monster Mike · 03.03.2009, 06:49 PM

I think it is mostly a different kind of newbie - not the kid just getting into it - dad buys him an xl5 rustler and buys himself the Flux or BL ERevo. Still a newbie - but one with discretionary income. :)

lincpimp · 03.03.2009, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Estingoy

Are there that many newbies starting out with a $1k brushless truck? What ever happened to working your way up to the big toys?

Lee

Instant gratification! Or sometimes rich people get curious!

Quote:

Originally Posted by RC-Monster Mike

I think it is mostly a different kind of newbie - not the kid just getting into it - dad buys him an xl5 rustler and buys himself the Flux or BL ERevo. Still a newbie - but one with discretionary income. :)

Good for the hobby, we need more pestering kids to get their dads into buying the really good stuff. That way when they break it and try to sell it used i can get some great deals!!!

In all seriousness maybe we should get together and write up some guidelines to properly setting up the MMM combo and see if CC will incorporate it somehow into their instructions? Just a thought...

hemiblas · 03.03.2009, 10:14 PM

6S and lower gearing for around 40-45mph would be a great setup and I agree some 20C 5000mah lipos would work great. I'm running 5S on my 2200 and I like it too for runtime and temps. I think 4S for an MT is an absolute min and you are at risk over overheating the motor, but not the MMM from what I have seen. Heck so even the guy with the 1800mah 25C lipo will be ok as long as he gears down and is within spec for what his battery and can put out. When I got started I bought some ebay 10C lipos, ran my calcs and thought everything would work out great. After I started testing the batteries they were good for more like 3C instead of 10C. Even someone that knows how to run the calcs and knows what he is doing can get burnt. Its really taken a lot of reading on this forum and others in addition to a lot of testing, measuring temps etc etc to really figure out how to correctly run this stuff.

lincpimp · 03.03.2009, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hemiblas

6S and lower gearing for around 40-45mph would be a great setup and I agree some 20C 5000mah lipos would work great. I'm running 5S on my 2200 and I like it too for runtime and temps. I think 4S for an MT is an absolute min and you are at risk over overheating the motor, but not the MMM from what I have seen. Heck so even the guy with the 1800mah 25C lipo will be ok as long as he gears down and is within spec for what his battery and can put out. When I got started I bought some ebay 10C lipos, ran my calcs and thought everything would work out great. After I started testing the batteries they were good for more like 3C instead of 10C. Even someone that knows how to run the calcs and knows what he is doing can get burnt. Its really taken a lot of reading on this forum and others in addition to a lot of testing, measuring temps etc etc to really figure out how to correctly run this stuff.

You just contradicted yourself. You say that the 1800 25c lipos will be fine, then say your 10c lipos were not up to spec... Your last line is pure truth though!

Finnster · 11:02 PM

@FDK: I wouldn't put it quite like that. I seriously doubt you will kill your esc just bc you run zippies. I'm sure Patrick is right that the failure rate is actually quite low. I have run cheap packs in all the various 1/8 BL and other vehicles I've had over the last few years and have yet to kill one of them. Just be careful with them and have a temp gun handy to watch things until you get the system setup right and reliable.
Over geared speed runs, loose slippers, towing and WOT in sand are things that kill BL fastest.

But yes, you do need to know what you are doing, and the manuals and LHS are very little help. Its said to use common sense, but these big and powerful BL 1/8th systems are not that common yet, so few have much experience, and some have little sense. When it doubt, treat it like a $1K truck and don't abuse it (despite what OEMs are telling you to do with it.)

Otherwise, I'm not going to push this point forever. One gets my point and agrees with it or doesn't. In my experience, there are few people who know how these things really work, few that have used them, and so good info is a bit scarce. Even on the internet. The people at my LHS knew nothing of BL aside from helis and some planes, but never about larger cars. When in doubt they went by website info or manuals (later on when the VXLs came out and whatnot.) Sort of like this comedy of errors. So many wrong theories and info its a bit funny, but I see the RCM crew was there to jump in and help out. At my LHS, they would ask me if I was around and I could talk to customers better than they could. It wasn't uncommon to see some parent or guy buy a truck, not know how to run it, constantly going back for repairs/parts, get pissed and become a former customer.

Furthermore, how many RC mag articles have we seen now that have totally wrong/misleading info? They use batts totally undersized for the job. Look at even the Flux review in Xtreme RC this month. They used 3200 or 3600 lipos for the 6S testing. Runtime a whopping 7mins. Great return on a $1k investment. Watch out for the nitro convert stampede. How long do you think those batts would live like that? No rationale to why those batts were chosen. Not a terrible review tho. Compare that to the Fine Design LST done a while back using a 4S 3200 lipo pack. Did 50mph for 6 glorious minutes, and the lipo pack was too hot to hold when it came out the truck. But it kicked ass and was only $1200. 0_o And these are supposed to be the guys teaching people stuff.

I think a good and detailed BL primer would be of great help to someone just jumping into large scale BL, either new to RC, nitro converts, or someone who just saw it in a mag and got pumped. TRX gives a whole DVD on breaking and tuning a nitro motor with their RTRs, as they know plenty of n00bs buy RTR kits and don't want pissed off people wanting replacements on broken parts b/c they didn't know what they were doing yet. BL is just as complicated, and you need to know what to look for and troubleshoot and what to change when. Doesn't need to be a PhD course, but at least BL 101. A.) Battery selection. B.) Gearing C.) Temperatures D.) Troubleshooting & Maintenance

03.04.2009, 02:49 AM

Finnster: Thanks, feel a little better. I mostly bash in front of my house in the street. I think the only thing I'll absolutely change is my breaking. I'll soften it up a bit. In dirt/off-road, I think the motor will see less stress. Temp gun... it's been in my hand from the beginning. So far, I've seen good numbers, ~110-150 degrees.