60C really?

[zeropointbug]

Originally Posted by Semi Pro

+1 the new Hyperion g3 vx are amazeing (this comeing from a guy that has 6 MA packs lol)

the 4cell 4200 is 65c burst for only $133

and you have to love the Hyperion 5c charge rate too

I hear you man, I bought my (2) 3s 4200 VX's for $200.


Austin, I, like BrainG and many others here will agree that there are no standards for C ratings. You can preach about your testing methods but here are the shortfalls:

-First, I don't even know of a battery pack that can deliver 60C at WELL OVER 3.2v/cell, I am not even sure the ThunderPower 40C' packs can do that!

-Second, your 4660 surge watts is based on what? That's 3.7v/cell, CAN your packs do 3.7v/cell at 60C? LOL And 60C seems like a very arbitrary number, no?

-Third, no body here (no smart person) would design a setup based on the surge watts, NOT A ONE. You always, ALWAYS make your battery choice based on continuous C rating, although, I admit is sometimes loose/false ratings. SURGE WATTS ARE IRRELEVANT.


My own setup, I don't even go above 25C discharge with a 6s Hyp. G3 35C/65C pack... why? because I want performance, not being able to say I power my rig with 60C+ bursts... and a few runs later have my battery overheat, puff, or even catch on fire in the most extreme case.

In the end, no matter what you say, it will take time for people to get the bad taste out of their mouths like Brian said; I hate to say it, but no one trusts Maxamps anymore. I will take some independent testing to prove otherwise, and also show us that your packs are worth twice as much as the one of the best packs out there.

[zeropointbug]

Austin, I would very much be willing to test a pack of yours if you would donate one for this purpose.

All I would need is a 6s pack with a capacity of 1750mah to test the 60C rating.

Is this possible to do?

zeropointbug,

1. We explain in exact detail our method for determining these ratings. You can test the packs the exact same way that we do and you will find the same results.

2. The surge watt rating is simply a number to help people determine the correct pack to choose based on their motor and speed control. Surge watts are not only relevant, but it is the way that the motors are rated and the only correct way to determine what battery to choose without having a watt meter hooked to the motor.

3. No smart person would determine what battery to use based on C rating since the C rating is just a number that the factory picks. It does not mean anything.

Of all the lipo manufacturers out there, I believe that MaxAmps has the least to "prove". There are many independent third parties that I have listed in the previous thread, thousands of happy customers over the last 5+ years, and the readers choice award in RC Car Action and RC Driver.

You may not realize it, but the reality is that more people trust MaxAmps than any other manufacturer. Your statement is just completely wrong. Your personal opinion is not what "everyone" thinks.

We realize that it will take time for people to understand the new method of rating packs but I believe that over time you will see other manufacturers using this same method. It is much more simple and easy to understand.

I posted here to help explain the new method of testing our packs. Thats all. I am sorry that for some reason you personally feel like we are not "trustworthy" and I take that very personally. I have worked hard to build this business on a rock solid foundation of integrity. If you have had a bad experience with us in the past I would love an opportunity to earn your business in the future. Feel free to give me a call personally to see how we can earn your business.

Best Regards,

Austin Else
CEO MaxAmps.com

Again, I'm a bit confused, you state that, "No smart person would determine what battery to use based on C rating since the C rating is just a number that the factory picks. It does not mean anything."

Yet your marketing states, "As you racers know, the most important factor for your batteries is voltage under load. This LiPo pack boasts a 60C rating for all your amp hungry racing setups. It will maintain higher voltage under load than any other LiPo battery pack on the market."

This is rather confusing to me.

dezfan,

My whole point is that the constant C rate does not mean anything. Some manufacturers test loose cells in a pack and then rate the pack based on the loose cells. Some test with 5 awg wire that is an inch long soldered directly to the tabs of the cells. Some consider it a constant rating if it lasts more than 10 seconds at over 3V. Some allow temps of 160 degrees. Some use cooling over the cells. Some test the cells starting at 50 degrees. THERE IS NO STANDARD.

Brian,

You can tell us your opinion of what the standard should be, but no matter how much influence you think you have, all the manufacturers are not going to "conform" to your standards.

You stating what you think the standard should be will not make it the standard. Thinking that your standards are the "standard" is crazy.

I have struggled with this whole C rating thing ever since the beginning when I would get a 20C cell from 2 different manufacturers and the performance would be completely different from one to the other.

That is the reason that we are changing it. At least this way I can feel like we can honestly back up our claims based on anyones "standards".

As an example, I have talked with a customer who thought that the standard should be "Constant C rate should keep the pack under 100 degrees, over 3.5V and should deliver the full rated capacity". I can not argue the point since there is no standard.

All we can do is tell you what the rating is, how we got to the rating, and how to determine what motor to use the battery with. If you smoke our pack on a motor that has a surge watt rating lower than our packs surge watt rating, we will replace the pack under warranty. It is that simple.

-Austin

Originally Posted by austinelse

dezfan,

My whole point is that the constant C rate does not mean anything. Some manufacturers test loose cells in a pack and then rate the pack based on the loose cells. Some test with 5 awg wire that is an inch long soldered directly to the tabs of the cells. Some consider it a constant rating if it lasts more than 10 seconds at over 3V. Some allow temps of 160 degrees. Some use cooling over the cells. Some test the cells starting at 50 degrees. THERE IS NO STANDARD.



-Austin

Understandable, but again it doesn't address your marketing which states:

"As you racers know, the most important factor for your batteries is voltage under load. This LiPo pack boasts a 60C rating for all your amp hungry racing setups. It will maintain higher voltage under load than any other LiPo battery pack on the market."

If the C rating doesn't mean anything, why the emphasis on the 60C rating in your marketing?

I am far from an expert on this matter, but isn't this contradictory?

BTW, thank you for the civil manner you use to discuss this topic. It is a pleasant change after dealing w/ other representatives from MA.

suicideneil,

Why do you always show up around the time that anyone else online starts to busts my chops?

From past history, I know that you LOVE to bash on MaxAmps at every opportunity. I personally don't have the time or energy get into it with you again, and again, ...and again. You don't like us. Thats ok. You don't have to be so abusive:). You are kinda like the bully on the bus who is always flicking my ears just to get a rise out of me.

dezfan,

I am not sure what is confusing. We are changing from using C rate over to using surge watts because C rate means nothing.

Electric Dave,

THANK YOU!!! Sometimes on these forums, the only people willing to state their opinions are the bashers. I appreciate it.

-Austin

I have to head home for the evening. I will not be able to respond again to this thread till tomorrow at the earliest. Thanks for all of your input and lively discussion.

I really do appreciate it, even if it is sometimes hard to take the criticism along with the input. We stay on the cutting edge by always improving and we don't know how to improve if all the feedback we get is good.

Best Regards,

Austin Else
CEO MaxAmps.com

[BrianG]

Originally Posted by austinelse

Brian,

You can tell us your opinion of what the standard should be, but no matter how much influence you think you have, all the manufacturers are not going to "conform" to your standards.

You stating what you think the standard should be will not make it the standard. Thinking that your standards are the "standard" is crazy...

I am not conceited enough to believe I have any influence. It doesn't matter what I think the standard should be, as long as there IS a standard. My post didn't say "this is what it should be", it said "it should be some along the lines of...". Someone made standards in other industries (car audio amp ratings are a good example), so it is possible. My whole point was to develop something quantifyable and consistent. The actual values of v drop, temperature, etc is up to you.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by BrianG

I am not conceited enough to believe I have any influence. It doesn't matter what I think the standard should be, as long as there IS a standard. My post didn't say "this is what it should be", it said "it should be some along the lines of...". Someone made standards in other industries (car audio amp ratings are a good example), so it is possible. My whole point was to develop something quantifyable and consistent. The actual values of v drop, temperature, etc is up to you.

Brian,

There should be a standard and one will come if some poor kid gets hurt because he tried to get 200A+ out of his battery. Who knows, the poor kid might be trying to get his KO Propo to put out 780A. Maybe that guy from California will start a law suit against all this false statements and then we will see some earth like ratings instead of this Alien technology we see coming out. We will then know who to blame for making our Hobby so dangerous with crazy claims. I will back them up by saying, there are still a lot of dumb, uneducated, common senseless people out there who will fall for this and one will only profit from it.