gas price in usa?

[redshift]

Gotta disagree with that Luc. Ethanol is hygroscopic, which means it absorbs water. In vehicles designed for gasoline this can lead to multiple issues, not the least of which would be frozen gas lines. There are many people who swear up and down that their mileage has decreased a significant amount with using adulterated fuels.

They have been mucking with our gas for at least 20 years. It started with the oxygenated fuels in the late 80s. This was the death knell for many a 2 stroke engine as it caused them to run lean and blow holes in pistons. Ask any snowmobiler what they think about either of the above and you'll get a very angry look at the least!

[Finnster]

Originally Posted by redshift

Gotta disagree with that Luc. Ethanol is hygroscopic, which means it absorbs water. In vehicles designed for gasoline this can lead to multiple issues, not the least of which would be frozen gas lines. There are many people who swear up and down that their mileage has decreased a significant amount with using adulterated fuels.

They have been mucking with our gas for at least 20 years. It started with the oxygenated fuels in the late 80s. This was the death knell for many a 2 stroke engine as it caused them to run lean and blow holes in pistons. Ask any snowmobiler what they think about either of the above and you'll get a very angry look at the least!

Ethanol is miscible with water, but anything above 50% EtOH its melting/freezing point is below the coldest temps you find. Anything below that would have to mixed w/ some other fuel like gas, which also will not freeze readily. Engines do have to be specially designed to run EtOH tho as a high % fuel, and looks like cause their own special problems too.

Ethanol does have a much lower energy density than octane, so it does take more volume to get the same amt of power. I know my mileage goes down in winter. Too bad the price really doesn't. :(

We do produce tons of corn, but most of that sugar just goes into food or cattle feed. I would guess there are tariffs to protect our corn industry from cheaper cane produced ethanol. Also, I think I saw Brasil was a little pissed back in 2008 that the US may come into the market and buyout the EtOH as our gas prices were skyrocketing, and we are such a large and wealthy market. It was feared we'd just buy up Brasil's supply, leaving the people there w/o the fuel they need (and can't switch to oil easily.) Prolly some protectionism on both sides.


As far as taxes and budgets are concerned, we do pay a lot, but its a joke to say its all Obama's fault. No one from either R or D really wants to cut spending, despite all the noise they make about it. Congress wouldn't even agree to a budget commission to propose spending cuts.

Everyone wants to cut everyone else's spending, but not their own.
2/3rds of the Budget is Defense, Medicare, SS and debt payments. Obama didn't invent those spending programs. All the other stuff people complain most about makes up the last 3rd (which a good deal is unemployment payments. Who dares to cut those now?)

So where do we cut all the spending then?
Chop down the military?
Stop paying out SS?
Stop paying medicare?

Deficit reduction is going nowhere w/o touching those

No one wants to vote to cut the military, or cut benefits to Grandma. No one wants to raise taxes to pay for it. Anyone who proposes anything gets beaten over the head by the other side. Both sides do it, and nothing ever gets done about it. Raising taxes and spending cuts will have to be done to restore some fiscal sanity to the US budget.
For the most part, Obama got to come in as the house of cards fell. He who smelt it, delt it, right? We'll see what happens. Prolly just more bickering and finger pointing as Rome burns. (haha or Greece as it were.)

[lutach]

Originally Posted by Finnster

We do produce tons of corn, but most of that sugar just goes into food or cattle feed. I would guess there are tariffs to protect our corn industry from cheaper cane produced ethanol. Also, I think I saw Brasil was a little pissed back in 2008 that the US may come into the market and buyout the EtOH as our gas prices were skyrocketing, and we are such a large and wealthy market. It was feared we'd just buy up Brasil's supply, leaving the people there w/o the fuel they need (and can't switch to oil easily.) Prolly some protectionism on both sides.

Brasil has plenty of surplus. Every year, they decrease the price of Ethanol in Brasil due to the surplus. Plus, Brasil hardly imports any petrol, we have plenty of that too. All I'm saying is that the US was going to import more Ethanol from Brasil, but US changed their minds and posted a 100% duty on Ethanol from Brasil. How do I know this? My family was pissed when they produced a bit more thinking the US was going to buy our Ethanol, which didn't happen. Who knows, maybe more conspiracies to go around .

I love this forum . Also, don't drink Ethanol . Many people got really sick when Brasil made the switch thinking it was plain simple Alcohol .

[lutach]

Originally Posted by redshift

Gotta disagree with that Luc. Ethanol is hygroscopic, which means it absorbs water. In vehicles designed for gasoline this can lead to multiple issues, not the least of which would be frozen gas lines. There are many people who swear up and down that their mileage has decreased a significant amount with using adulterated fuels.

They have been mucking with our gas for at least 20 years. It started with the oxygenated fuels in the late 80s. This was the death knell for many a 2 stroke engine as it caused them to run lean and blow holes in pistons. Ask any snowmobiler what they think about either of the above and you'll get a very angry look at the least!

How pure is the Ethanol you're talking about? Here in the US, they have trouble getting to the level of purity found in the Ethanol in Brasil. I know the IRL is bringing their fuel from Brasil. The tuning of an engine to accept Ethanol will determine the performance one requires. You can go either way if you want, but most want all the power they can get. If the US and other countries increase the amount of Ethanol to let say 25%, the price of gasoline can be cheaper. There are a lot of vehicle that is Flex Fuel and the number is increasing. A 75% gasoline/25% Ethanol mix would be nice. I think the current number is 90% gasoline/10% Ethanol (Or is it 85% gas./15% Eth.). All this numbers are confusing, but most Brasil is in a warmer climate zone so they don't have to worry about frozen gas lines .