Global Financial collapse

[PBO]

It's all relative isn't it. Though the booming Chinese middle class will be the hardest hit & that's hundreds of millions of people

Standard and Poor's for the first time revised the US credit rating downwards to a AA+...that's a bigger issue than it first might seem

[Finnster]

Nice. 90 times since 1939 have we raised the debt ceiling (which no other sensible country has) and the current bunch of yahoos just lost our AAA credit rating from S&P.

Britney Spears is a model for sanity and responsibility compared to some of the nutters we have in Congress.

The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as
America's governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective,
and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt
ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in
the debate over fiscal policy. Despite this year's wide-ranging debate, in our
view, the differences between political parties have proven to be
extraordinarily difficult to bridge, and, as we see it, the resulting
agreement fell well short of the comprehensive fiscal consolidation program
that some proponents had envisaged until quite recently. Republicans and
Democrats have only been able to agree to relatively modest savings on
discretionary spending while delegating to the Select Committee decisions on
more comprehensive measures. It appears that for now, new revenues have
dropped down on the menu of policy options. In addition, the plan envisions
only minor policy changes on Medicare and little change in other entitlements,
the containment of which we and most other independent observers regard as key
to long-term fiscal sustainability.

[Finnster]

Originally Posted by PBO

It's all relative isn't it. Though the booming Chinese middle class will be the hardest hit & that's hundreds of millions of people

Standard and Poor's for the first time revised the US credit rating downwards to a AA+...that's a bigger issue than it first might seem

I'm hoping to hell its not. Doesn't make me feel good about it, but one glimmer of hope was Japan in 2000. They had their credit rating downgraded, but borrowing rates actually fell slightly.

Little solace to the self-inflicted gunshot wound. Jesus...

[pinkpanda3310]

Originally Posted by PBO

Standard and Poor's for the first time revised the US credit rating downwards to a AA+...that's a bigger issue than it first might seem

Kinda surprised that didn't happen last time when they bundled up some of the lowdoc loans and sold them as securities to somewhere Europe.

[TexasSP]

Things tend to never be as bad as the doomsday and naysayer types make out. Life will change however and adjustments will be made. Humans have adapted for thousands of years, no reason that should change now.

The thing is, many of the same people pissing and moaning about the US right now are the same who pushed and assisted us getting into this mess in the first place. You can't be part of the cheer squad then act like you don't know what happened when things go bad then summarily attempt to wash your hands of the deal.

EVERYONE has to take responsibility.

[pinkpanda3310]

Each individual does carry some amount of responsibility, and they will be put in jail under the right circumstance. Not so with big business and Govt.

[Finnster]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

Things tend to never be as bad as the doomsday and naysayer types make out. Life will change however and adjustments will be made. Humans have adapted for thousands of years, no reason that should change now.

The thing is, many of the same people pissing and moaning about the US right now are the same who pushed and assisted us getting into this mess in the first place. You can't be part of the cheer squad then act like you don't know what happened when things go bad then summarily attempt to wash your hands of the deal.

EVERYONE has to take responsibility.

Are you talking about China? lol

[TexasSP]

Originally Posted by Finnster

Are you talking about China? lol

Them among others.

It's like the parent constantly feeding the spoiled teenager, then when all hell breaks lose, trying to act tough and wash their hands the whole deal.

China has many issues most of the world is unaware of. Labor rates being probably one of the biggest factors. They have a compounding labor rate issue and their attempts at controls of many market factors are backfiring. You simply can't control a capitalist economy with communist governance.

I think more bad news will come, although I don't quite see the doom and gloom some are predicting.

The problem now is that we have to fix the issues and quit pointing fingers. It's irrelevant at this point for the most part.

I think in the US we need to have a constitutional convention and we as the public address these issues which our elected officials can't get hold of.

First off I believe we need to impose term limits along with making some solid rules and definitions of job responsibilities and powers. For people from isolated communities to hold the amount of power they do in congress is insane. We also have to push more responsibility and power back to the state level. No one can fully understand a communities needs better than that community. Being centralized is causing many of our issues today.

One major issue I would like addressed would be to restrict people from running for office while holding an elected office. No company would allow an employee to publicly seek other/better employment all the while giving them a full paycheck and allowing the to work less. All that while using company money and equipment to do it. I think one 6 year term is plenty for a Senator or Representative. If you want to run for another office you either resign or wait until your term is over. No pension other than what you put to your 401k or similar and you pay your own healthcare. They get a base allowance for travel, staff, and expenses and that is it. No government jets period. These costs will automatically be raised by 3% per year and anything over and beyond has to go to a public vote. I would allow the president to run for a second term only with a 2/3rds vote from Congress then it goes to the public vote. This means the Congressional vote only allows him/her to run again, it doesn't elect them.

I would also force a balanced budget amendment. It would hold a provisional clause for borrowing under emergency circumstances only with limits as to percentage of the annual budget and terms of interest and payments. I would also propose that all Foreign aid be the last part of any annual budget and that it not exceed 1% of the total annual budget. I would limit jobless benefits to 6 months and welfare to 1 year. All recipients of government moneys would be required to submit to prescreening random drug screening. I would also cut defense spending as to eliminate the many redundancies and add a reserve provision were a certain percentage of the annual budget is put in case of extra spending for military operations outside the general protection of the US and it's interests. This fund could be accessed under the direction of the President but any operations over a certain amount and scope would require Congressional approval.

Obviously much more is needed but those are my starting points.

[JERRY2KONE]

My expectations would be that we finally vote in a president that has some serious business sense who can show a track record for increased profits, and low over head expenses. If we as a nation took a couple of years off from trying to save the rest of the world we would probably see a balanced budget, and "0" debt problems. Most of that $4trillion debt is due to providing aide and military might to other countries. Our foreign agendas used to be for improving benefits from helping these nations. These days I just do not see it. Sure we are helping to calm things down, but to what end? We are losing lives, money and face helping people who want us out of their territories. Will any of this happen? I doubt if we will see any changes that will make a difference before our economy crashes and we are no longer a number one or even a top five economy.

[Finnster]

I'm actually thinking the bottom may be about near. Things suck, but this is not 2008.

What funny is this year has practically been a repeat of 2010. Big run up in spring, peak in April. Doldrums in the summer, late summer panic, and Sept 1 marked off a huge bull run thru Q1 of the next year. Honestly, quite a bit of my retirement investment strategy is going off of last year and so far the timing has been brilliant. I wish my short-term investments were going so good, but I think the limitations on selling (must hold 30 days) has worked but better for me, as I've been to early to buy and sell, so I keep missing most of the swings... anyway..

10 yr US treasuries also tanked in last Aug. I refi'ed my house then and the 10yr was 2.6% IIRC and everyone was freaking out about the double dip. As said, turned out to be the coming of a big bull.

The dow has come off a historically bad run. If we're breaking records now, I'm guessing the end is close. Who knows how the yr will play, depends on a lot of idiots with too much power, but looking for a reversal soon coming into Sept.

[PBO]

Originally Posted by Finnster

I'm actually thinking the bottom may be about near.

Our market is one of the first to open tomorrow, so it will be very interesting to see what happens. Predictions are fairly gloomy here...

[TexasSP]

Jerry, the debt is not 4 trillion, it's 14.5 trillion and counting.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

This time in 2008 it was around 10 trillion so we have seen a 4.5 trillion increase in three years. In 2000 the debt was almost 6 trillion.

It's estimated by the CBO that the debt will be almost 19 trillion by 2015 but if the current trends sustain it will be closer to 23 trillion.

[PBO]

The ASX (Aussie Stock Exchange) has dropped just over 2% in the first 90mins of trade this morning

[JThiessen]

I moved most of my riskier stocks a couple weeks ago - hopefully I did "OK" with it - I didn't go into "cash" investments, which I had though about.

Regarding our govt:
I'd like to see us completely get rid of an campaign financing and contributions. Every candidate gets XXX amount of travel money and advertising time (all media - including internet). We (tax payers) will provide that funding. Term limits - maybe. I'm not so certain that we'll really get better representation by forcing someone out - good or bad. In reality, elections are a form of limiting their terms - we just dont have enough candidates. Maybe even consider eliminating the parties. I dont know how much longer I can listen to their party line rhetoric - both sides are equally guility of this, and have been for ages.

For fixing finances - figure out how much is needed funding wise, then take an equal amount out of EVERY item that is funded by the govt, with an equivelent amount of tax increase to everyone (include in this tax breaks).

I thought we had elected someone with a better business sense than it has turned out. I'm no dem supporter by any means, but I had hope.

[lutach]

The U.S.A. wouldn't be in the mess it is now if the U.S. followed what the founding fathers laid out. If the U.S. really forgot its past or can't remember that far back all the U.S.A. needed to do is listen to Robert Henry Winborne Welch Jr. founder of the John Birch Society. Do a search in Youtube for Robert Welch's video and one might call him a prophet .

Talking investments, did any of you who followed the stock game thread buy gold or silver back then?

Edit: I hope later today when the stock market opens, it won't go down much more.