going to buy a rifle---advice?

[lincpimp]

Originally Posted by Riko

Rnemhrd, to avoid misunderstanding and flaming in what is still a civil discussion, I want to say that I am not searching or waiting for certain reactions of Amercians so that I can pick at them....this is not the case, okay?
I hope you can believe that, because if I was searching for a pick or a laugh, than I would already be calling you a dumb american since you are giving me the chance, but I am not doing that.

I know what I was saying at first, but at certain times somebody said something that I thought I had to react, and it turned out into a interesting discussion with mutual respect.

So pls don't let this be the beginning of a flaming or a "you vs me" or a "US vs all the rest" because than I will ignore this discussion.
And maybe you got some kind of impression of me (wrongly) because I seem the bo the only non US member to discuss here :) besides the Australian member :)

And why that ritorical question? are you trying to start a flaming with that troll thing? just don't...because you are kinda confirming what you are judging me of = a chance to call me dumb non-American (or troll), and start an argument :)

I take it that you like Michael Jackson, given your choice of signatures?

He was a child molester, right? I wonder if nationalized health would cover someone like him, if he hurt himself during "the act"? Hopefully not, as I would not want to be an "accessory" to child molesting. (Cause I paid my taxes and they went towards medical help for a child molester). I do not agree with child molesting, and think that those people do not deserve to be part of our civilized society. But I do not think the Obama health care plan has any provision to limit care to child molesters.

Just kinda thinking out loud here... Nationalizing any sort of business always brings up alot of moral questions. Since you are taking away the ability for a single person to make a business decisions, and giving it to a group of "sub par" democrats, you loose the focus quite a bit. I do not have much trust in politicians, as they generally seem to keep their interests in mind, and not mine...

[Riko]

Originally Posted by lincpimp

I take it that you like Michael Jackson, given your choice of signatures?

He was a child molester, right? I wonder if nationalized health would cover someone like him, if he hurt himself during "the act"? Hopefully not, as I would not want to be an "accessory" to child molesting. (Cause I paid my taxes and they went towards medical help for a child molester). I do not agree with child molesting, and think that those people do not deserve to be part of our civilized society. But I do not think the Obama health care plan has any provision to limit care to child molesters.

Just kinda thinking out loud here... Nationalizing any sort of business always brings up alot of moral questions. Since you are taking away the ability for a single person to make a business decisions, and giving it to a group of "sub par" democrats, you loose the focus quite a bit. I do not have much trust in politicians, as they generally seem to keep their interests in mind, and not mine...

I just had a discussion about Michael Jackson the other day, how convenient :)
And I will say here what I said then: that guy has changed music forever, his songs, his dances are just awsome, he is a legend. Can't deny that.
Childmolestor or not, in what he did, he was one of those rare talents.

Ow and euh, I don't know what you understand under "justice" but you are innocent until proven otherwise and he was judged by a court...not guilty. Maybe you have no faith in fair trials or maybe your faith in your national health care system is bigger than in your judicional system, but he was proven not guilty by a court, right?

anyway, to answer the question: if you are hurt than you must be aided, that is the main principle.
Personally, if I know a childmolester is hurt by doing his deed, I wouldn't help him, I'd let him bleed and suffer! And maybe the nurse in that situation would think the same if he know what happend.
But when somebody is dying and bleeding or whatever, you do not ask first: did you get this from molesting a child, you first help him!

Is that really your vision? ask first and help later?

I think you are missing the greater picture if you link Health care with child molestor dude.
Child molestor are a fraction (tiny) of society, and you would cancel a system like that because of the fear that a few child molesters are getting medical help? lol don't you think you are thinkin illogical now?

+ if the justice system is good, than those child molestors would be in jail and they would be outside the social system..


PUBLIC healt care, the word PUBLIC means: for the public, the general public, all the people. That is the whole point of the system :)

[lincpimp]

Originally Posted by Riko

Ow and euh, I don't know what you understand under "justice" but you are innocent until proven otherwise and he was judged by a court...not guilty. Maybe you have no faith in fair trials or maybe your faith in your national health care system is bigger than in your judicional system, but he was proven not guilty by a court, right?

My friend, it sounds like you live in a black and white world. I happen to live in the big grey area in between. I guess we can just agree to dis-agree... Have a good one.

[Rnemhrd]

Originally Posted by Riko

Rnemhrd, to avoid misunderstanding and flaming in what is still a civil discussion, I want to say that I am not searching or waiting for certain reactions of Amercians so that I can pick at them....this is not the case, okay?
I hope you can believe that, because if I was searching for a pick or a laugh, than I would already be calling you a dumb american since you are giving me the chance with your reply, you are actually the one starting an argument...
But I am not doing that now, it was a good and civil discussion about, health care, politics, and visions. So lets stay adults in this and prove that you can be too.

About my posts, I know what I was saying at first, and at certain times somebody said something that I thought I had to react, and it turned out into a interesting discussion with mutual respect.

So again, pls don't let this be the beginning of a flaming or a "you vs me" or a "US vs all the rest" -discussion, because than I will ignore it, it's not worth it.
And maybe you got some kind of impression of me (wrongly) because I seem the be the only non US member to discuss here :) besides the Australian member :)

And why that provoking rhetorical question? are you trying to start a flaming with that troll thing? just don't...because you are kinda confirming what you are judging me of = a chance to call me dumb non-American (or troll), and start an argument

"going to buy a rifle---advice?" What does the heading of this thread have to do with 90% of what you have said?

[shaunjohnson]

i would just like to emphasise my apologies and mistake of the original 4 word post that started this argument/heated discussion.

REALLY REALLY sorry guys!! seems like the problem with forums is you cant read 60% of what's being said because of lack of body language :sad:

[lincpimp]

Originally Posted by shaunjohnson

i would just like to emphasise my apologies and mistake of the original 4 word post that started this argument/heated discussion.

REALLY REALLY sorry guys!! seems like the problem with forums is you cant read 60% of what's being said because of lack of body language :sad:

No prob man, I am sure that you meant no harm!!!!

[BP-Revo]

Originally Posted by shaunjohnson

i would just like to emphasise my apologies and mistake of the original 4 word post that started this argument/heated discussion.

REALLY REALLY sorry guys!! seems like the problem with forums is you cant read 60% of what's being said because of lack of body language :sad:

Don't worry about it, it was their choice to respond to you. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I will agree that it is hard to communicate certain things without body language. I recognized this when AIM came out and refused to use it for quite a while until I finally got one since it was the only reliable way for my group to discuss our biology project. The emoticons do help though...

As for guns, I'm of the stance that absolutely hates guns in one way, but am intrigued in another. My brother owns a gun (Sig P229 Pistol), and I went with him and my father to a gun range. My brother shot his own gun and my dad rented a glock. I was too much of a coward to shoot one. I didn't even pick the gun up.

The reason I hate guns is the sheer fact that so many stupid people own one, and because criminals seem to be able to get their hands on them (and much more powerful ones as well). In Britain you so much as have any type of firearm and you are BIG trouble - and few if any get shot each year as a result.

However, one of these days, I would love to work up the courage to shoot a gun (and eventually own one). I think if I was a little more familiar with one I wouldn't be so apprehensive. Though I wont leave it loaded in my nightstand or anything (probably have it locked in a case and hidden - or in a safe). If I were to go into mortal combat against someone I'd rather use fists, cause if he knocks me down and grabs my gun then I'd be screwed. But if it's just fists and he knocks me down I can get back up and kick his ass.

That being said, if I were to get a gun, I really like the FN Five-Seven Pistol. Without the California mag restriction, it comes with a 20 round clip and an optional 30 round clip. It shoots 5.7x28mm rounds and has an effective range that is 5 times greater than the average pistol. It also has very minor recoil. It is capable of using armor piercing rounds (obviously not available to the public) that will pierce NATO spec kevlar vests. It's generally considered as a small rifle. Because of this, anti-gun lobbyists call it the "cop-killer" gun and have tried (unsuccessfully) to put a federal ban on it. There's also speculation that it was used in the recent incident at Fort Hood, which is also unfortunate and doesn't help.

So, in one way, I support the freedom to own a gun. Freedom is the ability to do what you want (within reason). If you want a gun for self defense, by all means have one. Have ten even.

The only thing against this is that with a gun available, when you are really angry, you might just bust it out before you can come back to your senses and land yourself in some deep shit (and obviously kill someone). Also, of course, all the retards that own one as I said before.

Because of this I'm a little torn about guns. At the very least I think the process of which you must go through to buy one should be more thorough. You should be evaluated by a professional in a one on one environment to make sure that no 2-bit wack-job is getting one. Also should probably go through a very thorough, mandatory training class of sorts. If everyone was a sharp shooter, maybe they could just shoot the person in the shoulder, rather than put a bunch of rounds into their chest and face...

As for all the politics about the president coming in, I think race should be kept out of it.

Who cares if Obama has Kenyan roots? Half of the morons out there think he is Arab (or actually, most are so F'ckin stupid they think "Muslim" is a race rather than the religion it is and call him that). But honestly, who cares that he's half black? What's so great about white people? Last I checked some white guy killed millions of fellow white people (Hitler).

The dude was born and raised in Hawaii. He's an American. Anyone who believes otherwise is a complete fool. You can call him under-qualified, you can call him an idiot, you can call him a liberal, but don't be ignorant and judge him by his skin color.

And as for the job he's doing, given the situation he walked into, I think he's doing fine. He's a million times better than the last retard who was in office (and if anyone want's to talk about election scandals, they should start with him, not Obama - don't even try to say Obama's election was more scandalous that the 2000 election).

Plus, you have to spend money to get stuff done, that's the way it is. At least money is being spent to help our economy rather than fight some stupid war and make a select few people rich. This way the money spent will eventually work toward paying off the debt, not just adding to it.

I think we need to stick to facts.

[Riko]

Originally Posted by BP-Revo

As for all the politics about the president coming in, I think race should be kept out of it.

Who cares if Obama has Kenyan roots? Half of the morons out there think he is Arab (or actually, most are so F'ckin stupid they think "Muslim" is a race rather than the religion it is and call him that). But honestly, who cares that he's half black? What's so great about white people? Last I checked some white guy killed millions of fellow white people (Hitler).

The dude was born and raised in Hawaii. He's an American. Anyone who believes otherwise is a complete fool. You can call him under-qualified, you can call him an idiot, you can call him a liberal, but don't be ignorant and judge him by his skin color.

And as for the job he's doing, given the situation he walked into, I think he's doing fine. He's a million times better than the last retard who was in office (and if anyone want's to talk about election scandals, they should start with him, not Obama - don't even try to say Obama's election was more scandalous that the 2000 election).

Plus, you have to spend money to get stuff done, that's the way it is. At least money is being spent to help our economy rather than fight some stupid war and make a select few people rich. This way the money spent will eventually work toward paying off the debt, not just adding to it.

I think we need to stick to facts.

you said it all dude!

thx for posting the first sensible post

Originally Posted by Riko

thx for posting the first sensible post

I'm so glad you just qualified your own posts as being non-sensible

[Riko]

Originally Posted by drkdgglr

I'm so glad you just qualified your own posts as being non-sensible

but that would be arrogant of myself

[Bondonutz]

No worrys SJ.
Sooner or later someones panties are gonna get bunched up talking about things of this nature, shiz happens

[TexasSP]

shaun, you are fine, it's the trolls I worry about.

[Riko]

discussions, it can lead from one thing to the other, it's kinda interesting if you would read it. + what has your post to do with the heading of this thread? :)

but you're right, lets get back on topic, it seems the discussion about weapons has ended

[Rnemhrd]

To the OP. Sorry. Good bye Rico.