Cloned Slipperential?

[JThiessen]

Hmm -Mike, maybe you should put a listing for yours on Ebay. So then at least somebody interested in buying that one may actaully see yours too.
Also, you might want to snail mail that VERO doc to Ebay, with delivery confirmation. They can't deny that.

Bondo - I'll join ya in your effort, if we get enough others.

THe Chinese Govt wont do jack in this scenario. This is their type of "innovation" that is leading their financial recovery in that country.

[Finnster]

Originally Posted by RC-Monster Mike

The Patent application is over a year old, but it simply takes a long time to get approval. I did forward the Patent registration to EBay, but they are fairly unresponsive, depite their policies. I have faxed the VERO documents twice, but they "checked their faxes and haven't been able to locate the documents" - total BS, as both faxes went through fine on my end. I am working on other avenues but again...everything takes time(and money). It is a bit discouraging to have spent tens of thousands of dollars and over 2 years of development time only to see it all ripped off despite efforts to prevent this. My best defense is to continue developing the product along the knowledge of why the product is the way that it is - a copycat is just that - they don't know what materials, processes or why the little details are the way they are(and the entire product has been engineered right down to the spring rate). I also have the ability to help in the event of any potential issues that crop up.

I'm sorry to hear that man. We will try to do as much as we can to keep this thief off of ebay and where ever else we can find him.

[rschoi_75]

How about a few of us posting "Sell" pages that are basically advertisements to boycott the cloned slip? We can even spell it wrong just like them, "slipperental", so our pages will be right next to theirs. We can also price our "sell" pages higher, lower, and the same as theirs so we will effectively surround them in search results. It's a virtual pincer move on ebay!

If people are willing to do it, we can just take Mike's comments on the rcm homepage. Of course I would not do this without Mike's permission; and obviously we need to keep our "sell" pages classy to promote RCM and not detract from it.

[JERRY2KONE]

I like the idea of MonsterMike placing a listing on Ebay for his own slipperential with a very strong report of how the fakes that are listed are surley counterfeits and infringe on the rights of RCM's protected designs. At least it will let the general Ebay public know what is going on. It may not stop them completly, but it may discourage people from dealing with them. My thougts are that you have to fight fire with fire in cases like this one.

[Pdelcast]

I'll jump in with my $.02 --

The fact that Ebay is taking down ads for clones is admirable. Mike really doesn't have any rights YET -- because his patent is still pending.

After his patent is accepted, he can legally go after violators who sell in the USA -- and any dealers, distributors etc, who sell violating products in the USA. AND he can ask for damages if the violator knowingly violated the patent -- up to (I think) 300% of compensatory damage awards.

We filed a patent almost seven years ago for the Castle Link, and have had hundreds of violators, including other US companies. Finally now, the patent has been accepted and is being published as we speak.

I warned several companies that the patent was pending, and most of them basically said "well, if you get the patent, then sue us." Only one company has been paying royalties for rights to the design.

The issue is that it's hard to get a patent, and then its both hard to enforce, and expensive to enforce. Companies know this, and sometimes will risk some future profits to take gains in the short run.

And Patent protection doesn't protect anyone from small companies running in countries where the government doesn't recognize protection from foreign patents or copyright. These small companies can usually violate IP with impunity.

[jpoprock]

Yeah, this is a drag for Mike for sure and for any honest company who puts the work in developing a product. But I know from first hand experience that this is how Indochina companies work. They know what they are doing, and keep getting better and better at it. I'm a musician, and these guys can clone almost anything, and do. Usually though, they don't know much at all about what they are cloning, but they know how to make it. American companies also take advantage of this too, by sending say a guitar pedal to them and saying "make something like this based off this circuitry, and they will! They send numerous demos back and forth until the boss says "we like this one, make this one the production run. Now, they (the factories) have no idea what capacitor does what to get that tone, etc. These guys are not "tone gurus"! They are literally dudes in lab coats! They just do the best they can, And send lots of product samples. The one they get right, they can then recreate over and over again. Once approved, it becomes the production model.

I hope Mike can do something, but word of mouth, branding, quality, and support will win in the end I'm sure!

J

[jpoprock]

Hilarious... I just read Mikes reply, and he said exactly what I said! These dudes don't really understand anything about the slipperential, and all of the reasons why it was made the way it was made. They just clone it and sell it. Sometimes sadly, with remarkable success!

But in this case, I don't see it really hurting Mike all that much. The people that will buy this likely don't even know of RCMonster, and wouldn't have been a customer anyway. But now that they end up with a junk product that lasts long enuff to give them a taste of how good it could have been, they just might come running to RCM for the real thing, and will gladly pay more for the quality and support!

[BrianG]

Originally Posted by jpoprock

...But in this case, I don't see it really hurting Mike all that much. The people that will buy this likely don't even know of RCMonster, and wouldn't have been a customer anyway. But now that they end up with a junk product that lasts long enuff to give them a taste of how good it could have been, they just might come running to RCM for the real thing, and will gladly pay more for the quality and support!

Unless the junk product makes them think all such products are junk too and never tries the original. The fact that they copied it so closely might have people making the assumption that they're all the same.

[jpoprock]

Yes Brian, that is certainly a possibility. But we both know that say a UE Alum arm kit made of 7075 is NOT the same as an Integy Alum Arm kit, that is much cheaper, and LOOKS really nice. And sooner or later, people figure that out the hard way. I would have to say that even though RC is filled with newbies, most of the hard core guys (i.e RCM buyers), are educated enough to stay away from cheap chinese clones. And my point is, the people buying those cheap clones would likely not have been able or willing to afford the "real deal" at RCM. So, I would have to bet that it's not going to be damaging to Mike's business in the long run. It will have an effect for sure, I'm just not sure that it will be crippling. It may force Mike to price himself more competitively. But as of right now, there aren't enough guys selling Slipperentials (Esp those that are actually good), to merit that. And why lower your prices to counter cheaper guys? Especially when to many... it's the price difference that is the indicator of quality? Of course, the most expensive product doesn't always indicate "the best". It just indicates the most expensive! HA!!

As a matter of principle, I would agree that Mike should do something if he can. I just bet he won't be able to do much. I do know that he can sue or demand they alter their design if it resembles his product too closely. For instance, Gibson guitars go after Chinese knockoff's all the time, especially if the design resembles their patent too much. I've actually got a Chinese knock off Gibson Les Paul that looks almost exactly like a real one, with some very minor differences, and of course the name. Now, the guitar is "ok", but it can't hold a candle to my real Les Paul. Visually, it looks great, but technically, it's not even close. Cheap wood, cheap electronics, cheap hardware, etc. Does it play? yes. Do I get paid the same on it? Yep! But, there is a difference. And I've had to actually dump money in it to get it so that it was "gig ready" even. By the way... Gibson eventually put an end to that model that I have and made the company change the design. I have an early run of the guitar before the change.

Cheap stuff is cheap for a reason... it's junk! And you can't run from it no matter what. There are VERY few exceptions to that rule too. And in the RC world... Cheap is the kiss of death.

[JThiessen]

Originally Posted by jpoprock

I would have to say that even though RC is filled with newbies, most of the hard core guys (i.e RCM buyers), are educated enough to stay away from cheap chinese clones. .

How many people on here run Zippies? I'd venture to guess that you might even have some???? Albeit not exactly the same comparison as the slipperential, but def. the the same as the arms you quoted. I'd pay more for good ole USA stuff, but unfortunately, not a lot of people can afford to.

[E-Revonut]

Originally Posted by JThiessen

How many people on here run Zippies? I'd venture to guess that you might even have some???? Albeit not exactly the same comparison as the slipperential, but def. the the same as the arms you quoted. I'd pay more for good ole USA stuff, but unfortunately, not a lot of people can afford to.

I came close to getting a zippie once....When it sat in processing for 3 days I canceled the order. There are alternatives that are pretty close in price from companies right here in the US. I paid $84 for my 4s 5500mah Neu pack, haven't looked at comparable zippies lately but I'll pay Neu over HC any day.

[suicideneil]

Q. for Mike- is there a patent application number for the slipperential? I seem to recall it being posted a long while back when the slipperential was first revealed but cant find it for the life of me...

[RC-Monster Mike]

Yes - the patent has a registration # and is registered under 2 classes(475 and sub class 321). I am not sure if the reg# should be posted.

[Finnster]

We won't be able to completely stop them, but they have not been back on ebay. If we can keep them off there, they will be religated to some RC backwater site in HK. Their sales should greatly suffer.

Its not a perfect solution, but at least its a small win, and we are denying them the huge sales I bet they were dreaming off when they decides to steal Mike's stuff.

[JERRY2KONE]

Well that is good news considering the circumstances. I think that may put a damper in their thinking and maybe even makethem think twice about what they copy in the future.