I am wrong about MaxAmps. - Page 8 - RC-Monster Forums

glassdoctor · 11:17 PM

I have talked to Austin many times since he first got into the biz, and he has always come across as a good guy imo. It's no surprise that John has a positive report after a phone call. Jason has been more abrasive it seems and obviously has caused some trouble on the forums with his "style".

I tend to not count that against MA in general... though they do ultimately answer for the conduct of their reps in some way. MA is not the only company with this kind of issue. (SMC comes to mind...)

Here's the deal imo... it appears that TrueRC may rate their packs conservatively and MA may push the ratings more to the edge. The industry has ratings all over the place. It's not like MA is alone in having "optimistic" C ratings. It's the norm really. Not many choose to "de-rate" their product.

I agree there are other brands that perform better, so don't misunderstand. I got better #'s from my Core 5000 than from my MA pack. But on the track they both run great.

In any case... the whole C rating thing is out of control and should be taken "with a grain of salt". I know one company who doesn't put a rating on their packs at all, because they want to stay out of the whole mess.

I'm very confident that Austin is not trying to BS the R/C community and sell crap. He's not their to make a quick buck... he's their to build a good reputable business. I think the lynch mob effect has happened here at RCM. Go to rcgroups.com where MA has had a good presence for a long time and those plane guys are "lipo-nuts"... I don't recall you any of this type of reaction and bad talk.

Also... don't forget that I have posted graphs of MA packs that are pretty good. The ones posted recently where the voltage fell on it's face at like 30-40 amps just isn't right based on what I have seen. My results are completely different.

Oh, and I have killed two MA packs... both my fault. One I shorted out, and one (I forgot about last time this came up) I left plugged in and found it at about 0v (4s pack) a couple weeks later. Both packs ran ok for a while but eventually puffed, as expected.

I'm getting some fresh MA packs soon.

Just a different take.

lutach · 04.29.2008, 11:41 PM

Some folks will see the bad side of Jason in rcgroups. Go there and you will see some guys complaining already. This is what I like: http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/mai...an=PRC&cat=PXQ. They did their homework and wow. I like how they post the Factory C rate and the Ideal C Rate. MA has been in this industry long enough and they should do the same. I would never say a 2100mAh pack made from 15C cells are 20C. If I had 15C rate from the factory, I would just say 10C so people wouldn't try and blame me for any abuse of the pack. Play safe now or feel sorry later. Example: My controller are rated from the place that's doing them for 15S lipos, but I'm going to go with 14S just to give a bigger margin.

johnrobholmes · 04.29.2008, 11:44 PM

Those 30/50C packs are rated 30/60 from the factory too. Even more derating. I am cool with that, because the pack will perform to the numbers that they show.

lutach · 04.29.2008, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnrobholmes

Those 30/50C packs are rated 30/60 from the factory too. Even more derating. I am cool with that, because the pack will perform to the numbers that they show.

But do you see what cheapbatterypacks did? It is really cool that they show an ideal C rate mainly because they did the homework and I'm pretty sure they know from experiance that the packs will perform at the ideal C rate. My packs for example comes with a 25C from the factory. They provide that and the burst, but would I feel good saying they are 25C. I'm still beating the crap out of them and I have posted real world data on them.

lincpimp · 04.30.2008, 12:42 AM

Well guys, we all know what I think about maxamps products...

I sat for a while tonight and though about alot of things and decided to make my first thread over at NK a positive one. I did not go into the problems I had with the packs, and the somewhat vauge customer service that I experienced. I chalk up half of my pack failures to my learning curve, and the other half to factory quality control issues. Keeping my "experiences" in mind, I decided to try to solve this issue by attempting to push education and realization, sort of looking at the big picture.

I still firmly believe that there are other lipos out there that can outperform maxmaps proucts at the same price. That is all I care about when I buy a lipo. My opinion there has not changed.

However it is important that Maxamps continues to make a postive improvement on thier products, as so many people rely on them! They are a big company that has a large segment of the land rc lipo market. They have a responsibility to improve electric rc!

Here is a link to the thread, I am registered there as JamesRobertdownie :http://www.nitrokillers.com/showthre...=7109#post7109

sikeston34m · 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lincpimp

Well guys, we all know what I think about maxamps products...

I sat for a while tonight and though about alot of things and decided to make my first thread over at NK a positive one. I did not go into the problems I had with the packs, and the somewhat vauge customer service that I experienced. I chalk up half of my pack failures to my learning curve, and the other half to factory quality control issues. Keeping my "experiences" in mind, I decided to try to solve this issue by attempting to push education and realization, sort of looking at the big picture.

I still firmly believe that there are other lipos out there that can outperform maxmaps proucts at the same price. That is all I care about when I buy a lipo. My opinion there has not changed.

However it is important that Maxamps continues to make a postive improvement on thier products, as so many people rely on them! They are a big company that has a large segment of the land rc lipo market. They have a responsibility to improve electric rc!

Here is a link to the thread, I am registered there as JamesRobertdownie :http://www.nitrokillers.com/showthre...=7109#post7109

They already kicked/Banned someone we know and Labeled him as a "Trouble maker".

This is strange, because in our motor winding discussions, I found this person to be one of the most intelligent and helpful people that I encountered on the subject.

Thanks for the Link, Linc. I will be following along with this to see how it "evolves".

I already see back peddling, arguing with ratings off misread material, and getting out the dictionary to see exactly what the definition of "Continous" really is.

I would LOVE to see an unbiased 3rd party conduct discharge testing of various Brands.

I believe everyone would be very surprised. Quality isn't always indicated by Retail Price or Marketing Hype.

05.03.2008, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lincpimp

I still firmly believe that there are other lipos out there that can outperform maxmaps proucts at the same price. That is all I care about when I buy a lipo. My opinion there has not changed.

However it is important that Maxamps continues to make a postive improvement on thier products, as so many people rely on them! They are a big company that has a large segment of the land rc lipo market. They have a responsibility to improve electric rc!

I agree 100% with you James! I much rather buy other brand lipos, but a ton of people go into the BL world with the VXL cars, and most of them bought max amps packs to go along... So its getting more people into the BL side of the hobby which is good

lincpimp · 05.03.2008, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackedOutREVO

I agree 100% with you James! I much rather buy other brand lipos, but a ton of people go into the BL world with the VXL cars, and most of them bought max amps packs to go along... So its getting more people into the BL side of the hobby which is good

I would say that the maxamps packs would be just fine in the vxl trucks. The are not heavy enough to really strain the packs, especially the 8000 mah model!

kulangflow · 04.30.2008, 08:40 AM

That's funny, Linc. I just responded to your post over there not realizing it was you.

I really did like your post. I hope that it catches some attention.

lincpimp · 04.30.2008, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kulangflow

That's funny, Linc. I just responded to your post over there not realizing it was you.

I really did like your post. I hope that it catches some attention.

Yep, I thought long and hard about how to appeal to everyone involved. I could just say that maxamps ratings are incorrect, and they need to change that before everyone catches on and decides to take their business else where. But I went for a more diplomatic approach. It appears that Jason takes critisism very seriously, and I did not want to appear to just jump on the bashing bandwagon. It is nice to hear that he admits to not having much if any experience with larger scale conversions. That is interesting, and makes quite a bit of his argument unfounded to me. I hope that maxamps starts to give some sort of suggestions for use with their pack descriptions. At least it would give them some sort of backup when they encounter issues.

jfruge · 12:21 PM

Another US vendor to get packs that are less money but still good and have good service Elite 4800mah http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/?si...owlipos&sale=Y

Fun Fun,

skellyo · 04.30.2008, 11:54 AM

This is yet another thread with Jason attacking someone for no reason at all really. It was bad enough that the site owner told Jason to back off.

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117095

lincpimp · 04.30.2008, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skellyo

This is yet another thread with Jason attacking someone for no reason at all really. It was bad enough that the site owner told Jason to back off.

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117095

Funny, Jason really has it in for you John! Badger really put the smack down on Jason. I would not be suprised if Jason is removed from most of the forums he is on. I like his limitless knowledge on everything. I wonder how many different brushless/lipo setups he has done? That would be handy info to know when he starts running his mouth.

04.30.2008, 02:24 PM

Hi Guys,

Austin here with MaxAmps. This is going to be long but hopefully worth the read.

I just read through this entire thread. I hope I can share some insight with you that may change your mind about a few things or at least add some content to your discussion.

1. First off, we never rated a 15C cell as a 20C cell. The pack in the picture is a Tronics pack from at least 3-4 years ago. It was rated at 15C when we sold it.

2. In addition, we do not sell Tronics cells and have not for at least 3 years.

3. From talking with John, the MaxAmps packs that he has tested were not only very old packs that we no longer offer, but also smaller cells under 3000mah.

4. The rating systems for "C" rate varies from factory to factory. As a general rule, they are absolute "maximums" based on testing loose cells without wire, plugs, shrink wrap, and at ideal starting temperatures. The factories that we work with provide us with the C rates. We test the cells at those rates and post those rates on the site. With some cells we under-rate and with some we keep the same, however we never "over-rate" the cells.

5. I spoke with John yesterday. John is a great guy, however in Jason's defense, he is also our direct competition as he sells battery packs on his site. I don't think that was John's motive for all of these posts. However, I can understand where Jason would think that John's opinion would be biased.

6. As you grow as a company, more and more people attack you. There are more MaxAmps packs out there than the other packs you are referring to. Therefore based on percentages, there are going to be more "defective" packs. As a consumer, the grass is always greener.

7. There are tons of our competitors posting as "customers" and trying to bash our packs for their benefit. It happens in every industry. Both Jason and I have dealt with several of these folks and may be too quick to lash out and get defensive. I have talked with him about this and we are on the same page.

8. We are constantly improving our packs. New versions of cells come out all the time. A 1 year old pack of any of our cells is an "old" version of the cell. That is why I am sending out a new 8000 pack for testing against the "infamous" 6000 MaxAmps vs 8000 True RC thread that has been posted on every forum that I know of.

9. We pride ourselves on customer service, quality products, and value. There is no such thing as a "quick buck" in this industry. If you sell an over rated product then you will get so many returns, negative posts, and unhappy customers that you could not survive. There are 100,000 happy MaxAmps fans out there using our packs. There are 3-4 people in this thread bashing us back and forth that may not even be customers. The one I have talked to does not have any MaxAmps packs over 3000mah and showed a picture of a 3-4 year old pack, then acts like we rated it differently than what was on the cell. The other one is using out dated 6000 and old version packs to compare to a brand new 8000 pack.

10. Here is a fact: MaxAmps earned both the RC Car Action Readers Choice Award for Best Battery and I just got off the phone with RC Driver whom we also won the "Best Battery" award. Can all these thousands of readers just be getting duped into thinking MaxAmps is the best? Not likely.

11. We do our best to offer full time online support(Jason). Its not an easy job. I can assure you that Jason's heart is in the right place. I do not know of another battery manufacturer that offers this type of support. He is constantly having to determine peoples motives behind what they are posting and lots of time finds out that they are either a competitor or sponsored by a competitor.

12. I agree that the "C" rating system is not a good system. There is no standard and "C" rating is really meaningless. We are working on a system to better rate our packs, however without everyone using that same rating system there would be no way to compare one pack to the next. I think that it needs to have weight of pack, capacity of pack, voltage under load, and max temp and a certain amp draw. This is similar to the NiMH sticker "matching". That is the only way to get an apples to apples comparison.

13. We try and match up packs for specific vehicles and setups. That is 95% of the market. Our 3S 5000 is perfect for the VXL, our 2S 8000s are perfect for the Emaxx, our 3S 1550 is perfect for RC18T. The majority of customers do not have the ability to even figure out what a "C" rating means.

14. I guess I will finish up with this. We are the only company that offers a 3 year 300 cycle warranty. That is putting your money where your mouth is. No other manufacturer offers anything even close. We are always available via the online support and the phone to talk you through your setups. We also offer any configuration, plug, tap, wire, and sized pack that you want. Its guaranteed fresh within 3 weeks since we build the packs here in the USA.

What other company can you call and talk to the actual person that built your pack?

In the end I appreciate all of your feedback. It keeps us going and never settling. We are constantly improving our products, service, and systems. To stay on the cutting edge of this industry, we have to.

Best Regards,

Austin
CEO MaxAmps.com

Robert · 04.30.2008, 12:15 PM

So, I'm in need of my first Lipos for an MM5700. I plan to run it in the new Traxxas Slash.
What do I do for a charger an batts? I was going to get one of the combos from Max amps but I don't want a fire my first time out. I'll subscribe to this thread, hopefully you'll have some insight for me.