Any of you upset over your healthcare law?

[nitrostarter]

Originally Posted by PBO

Who or what are you guys anticipating an attack by??

Our own government...

[lutach]

Originally Posted by nitrostarter

Our own government...

+1

We can bring them down without violence and all it takes is a few proof. Let me get a hold of all the vaccines given in the US and you'll see that side covered which will put a few other related industry running to change their ways.

[TexasSP]

Thank you for your funny post Tedo, I needed a good morning laugh!

If you really think people just "love" the new health care bill, maybe you should spend a little more time paying attention to things outside your bubble.

But hey, we're all right wing extremists so what do any of us know anyway.

[TexasSP]

Speaking of vaccines check this out. 70 million+ doses of H1N1 about to expire:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,590269,00.html

Some vaccines are necessary, some aren't. But everyone should be well informed before getting any for you or your children. I think it's a personal choice which should be left up to the individual, not the law maker.

I know that every time I ever got a flu shot, within two weeks I was sick as a dog with the damn flu. The last 4 years I have not gotten a flu shot and guess what, NO FLU!

[lutach]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

Speaking of vaccines check this out. 70 million+ doses of H1N1 about to expire:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,590269,00.html

Some vaccines are necessary, some aren't. But everyone should be well informed before getting any for you or your children. I think it's a personal choice which should be left up to the individual, not the law maker.

I know that every time I ever got a flu shot, within two weeks I was sick as a dog with the damn flu. The last 4 years I have not gotten a flu shot and guess what, NO FLU!

Only a few are basically needed, but everytime my daughter got a vaccine I questioned her doctor and no good answer came out of her mouth. More and more questions came when my daughter went from talking a few words most her age never say and starting to walk, to having her just say nothing, didn't want to try to walk or crawl and to doing basically nothing and her doctor had no answer. During that time, I had the usual weekly or twice a week a normal hospital go to do to my daughter just having high fevers.

Like I mentioned before here, if I get the actual vaccines to have them tested, the system will slowly crumble. The H1N1 scam back fired and you've seen the results. Countries getting angry for spending billions and other countries given free outdated H1N1 vaccines so they can inject who knows what in them.

This is an e-mail I recieved from a very respected composer who is expecting a child:

"Luciano -

Thank you for your well-wishes and email. D***** and I have investigated the vaccine/Autism link very carefully, and though we're not convinced there is an absolutely direct correlation between the two, we feel there is strong anecdotal evidence to suggest vaccines play a significant role. We're just not sure it's as simple as some suggest. Accordingly, our plan is to have our child vaccinated with the absolute minimum number that can be justified, after careful review of statistical probabilities for risk, ingredients, etc. As you are no doubt aware, most of the vaccines are either unnecessary, laden with dangerous levels of chemicals, marginally effective, or have severe side-effects. I do not remember the exact ones off the top of my head, but I think of the some 34-36 "usual" vaccines, we only found 1 or 2 to be reasonable and acceptible.

Thanks for your concern; we share it! All our best to you and your family,"

[lincpimp]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

I know that every time I ever got a flu shot, within two weeks I was sick as a dog with the damn flu. The last 4 years I have not gotten a flu shot and guess what, NO FLU!

Never had a flu shot, and I have maybe had the flu 2 or 3 times in 30yrs. I get head colds, but they go in 4 days.

I stay away from the doctor, sick people go there all the time, you know...

[Arct1k]

Vaccines are very difficult - I understand Luciano's situation and its hearting breaking but... vaccines do have a very large social wellfare element to them as without widespread vaccination they are proven to be ineffective.

It then becomes a very sad statistics issue - 1 in 1,000,000 complications from a vaccine vs how many people could die from a bug should it spread...

It is difficult to argues against smallpox vacines for example:

During the 20th century, it is estimated that smallpox was responsible for 300–500 million deaths.[9][10][11] In the early 1950s an estimated 50 million cases of smallpox occurred in the world each year.[12] As recently as 1967, the World Health Organization (WHO) estimated that 15 million people contracted the disease and that two million died in that year.[12] After successful vaccination campaigns throughout the 19th and 20th centuries, the WHO certified the eradication of smallpox in December 1979.[12] To this day, smallpox is the only human infectious disease to have been eradicated

Do some research on the spanish flu for example - It is difficult to call H1N1 a non event / hoax when you see what could have happened and I personally believe will happen one day...


One thing I do disagree with is how much they give kids at once - The only reason they combined MMR is to reduce the number of doctors visits and hence reduce costs / avoid people not completing the course. I SHOULD have the choice to come back to the docs 6 times if I wish...

[lutach]

Originally Posted by Arct1k

Vaccines are very difficult - I understand Luciano's situation and its hearting breaking but... vaccines do have a very large social wellfare element to them as without widespread vaccination they are proven to be ineffective.

It then becomes a very sad statistics issue - 1 in 1,000,000 complications from a vaccine vs how many people could die from a bug should it spread...

It is difficult to argues against smallpox vacines for example:



Do some research on the spanish flu for example - It is difficult to call H1N1 a non event / hoax when you see what could have happened and I personally believe will happen one day...


One thing I do disagree with is how much they give kids at once - The only reason they combined MMR is to reduce the number of doctors visits and hence reduce costs / avoid people not completing the course. I SHOULD have the choice to come back to the docs 6 times if I wish...

Some of the stuff vaccines are supposed to be good for I got naturally. A lot of the viruses and/or diseases are created in labs worldwide. How come the US has such a high number of vaccines (Not sure if the UK has the same amount)? How come countries that doesn't have as many vaccines and that are not produced by the companies protected by the US Government doesn't have high cases of Autism, Flu and other crap that you see happening here in the US? Why vaccines here have shown to have so much garbage in them?

I can end this and have much safer and productive vaccines if I can get my hands on all the vaccines given in the US. Very simple. The people who will be conducting the tests are waiting for them. Both my uncles have given me a lot of info on the subject and they are finding more and more info that are shocking them about the vaccines here in the US.

Keep in mind Autism is rare in girls. How will the US Government explain that the only generation being effected with Autism are my daughter's. Yes, she was the first of the new generation in both side of the families and now she has a younger cousin with Autism. How F****** odd. My brother saw what happened to my daughter and didn't let his son and daughter get all the vaccines, they're both fine and so are they're cousins.

[TexasSP]

We must never forget that history repeats itself though, again, and again, and again, and again. You get the point.

Somehow we think today we live in a different type world, one that is above things of the past. We have great technology, but that's about it. Somehow though, we still repeat the mistakes of old. We think just because something is the way it is right now, that it will be that way forever. Why not be prepared on all fronts. Remember that an armed citizen is much harder to push around than one that is unarmed.

At one time Rome was the most powerful nation on earth, at another time a group of barbarians known as The Huns who seemed to have come from nowhere almost completely concurred the known world. Persia was once a great empire, as well as Greece, the UK, Germany, Russia, Turkey, Egypt, and so on. The only constant we have is change. Change for the better and changer for the worse, but change no doubt.

I know of a man in Northern California is was laughed at by his liberal neighbors as being a dumb right winger for installing a back up generator and having a water storage tank. The one winter when the snow storms came and the power was out, he didn't look so foolish.

There is nothing wrong with being prepared. As the old saying goes I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

I just have to ask, if an intruder breaks into your house and threatens your family, how will you respond? What if the intruder is only carrying a knife, but what if he has a gun?

[JERRY2KONE]

I see both sides very clearly and can defend either way. Personally I find that having guns in ones house could turn out for the good or the bad. We have all read or seen on TV about the kid who got a hold of his father's firearms and accidentally killed himself or someone else. Or the father who defended his home from a home invasion. I have personally seen kids turn on their own parents and shot them to death with their very own guns just because they were told to take out the trash one time too many. It is much easier to have an accident with a firearm, than with a baseball bat. I have qualified for Expert pistal, and Expert rifle while serving our country in the US Navy, but still have never had a firearm in my home. Personal choice. Maybe if we lived out in the wilderness where wild animals could enter our homw, but the likelyhood of that happening in the average home is very unlikely.

Still if something catostrophic were to happen in our society that would send us into some kind of powerless dark days a weapon might be ones only chance of survival for a while in defense of personal property. Who knows? I prefer to live in the realm of today. Life is good and I want to enjoy it the best ways that I know how. Be happy and spend that money sharing the life you have with the ones you love. Not hiding in one's house worrying about some ficticious invasion. If it happens, it happens. Survival in those types of situations will be pretty slim at best, and even so who would want to be around if it does come to that?

[squeeforever]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

I just have to ask, if an intruder breaks into your house and threatens your family, how will you respond? What if the intruder is only carrying a knife, but what if he has a gun?

Honestly, they could have a damn Popsicle stick for all I care. There ass is still gonna get shot and attacked by a pitbull.

[PBO]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

I just have to ask, if an intruder breaks into your house and threatens your family, how will you respond? What if the intruder is only carrying a knife, but what if he has a gun?

I understand your point. I find it a little doomsday but hey, plenty have optimists have been caught short before!

In Australia you can only use reasonable force even if you're the victim of home invasion or forced entry. This means (in general terms) you can't kill them, shoot them, bash them, detain them etc...you're supposed to shoo them out the door & call the cops!!

I however live in a reality that says; "if you come in uninvited, you're getting whatever I have that will hurt or maim until you leave". Part of this reality also recognises that these events are very rare in Sydney & rarer still where I live. As I suggested before it may be a case of nation-centric mindsets that don't fit specific circumstances

My mother chose to live on Sydney's meanest street for 10 years (it's long story). It was a no-go area during the day...don't even think of it at night!! She had bullet holes in the front of her house & acquired more as more guns were brought into the street. The residents armed themselves against rivals who had guns...things escalated (or degenerated) from there & drive-by's were happening almost weekly...point being, violence & especially armed violence, in my opinion breeds more of the same as the arms race ensues...

[lincpimp]

Originally Posted by PBO

I understand your point. I find it a little doomsday but hey, plenty have optimists have been caught short before!

In Australia you can only use reasonable force even if you're the victim of home invasion or forced entry. This means (in general terms) you can't kill them, shoot them, bash them, detain them etc...you're supposed to shoo them out the door & call the cops!!

I however live in a reality that says; "if you come in uninvited, you're getting whatever I have that will hurt or maim until you leave". Part of this reality also recognises that these events are very rare in Sydney & rarer still where I live. As I suggested before it may be a case of nation-centric mindsets that don't fit specific circumstances

My mother chose to live on Sydney's meanest street for 10 years (it's long story). It was a no-go area during the day...don't even think of it at night!! She had bullet holes in the front of her house & acquired more as more guns were brought into the street. The residents armed themselves against rivals who had guns...things escalated (or degenerated) from there & drive-by's were happening almost weekly...point being, violence & especially armed violence, in my opinion breeds more of the same as the arms race ensues...

Reasonable force, gotta love the socialist terms that the gov't tools use to make court cases draw out...

Lets just say there are no guns, and a very well trained martial artist breaks into your home. You attempt to defend yourself against him, not knowing that he is well trained. He kills you and your family.

Same scenario with you having a gun, bang, and he is dead.

Lets see them prove in court that he was not capable of attacking and killing you. Maybe he has a black belt, and you are quasi handicapped? Seems like shooting him was a pretty good idea at that point, and certainly not excessive. Or you are a 80yr old frail woman. No one is going to go against her protecting herself with a gun.

People who are physically handicapped, old or of small stature are targets. They are easier to overpower or subdue. No one is going to say a 90lb 5ft tall woman is a match for a 250lb 6'4" cage fighter. No contest. So that is where a gun is a great equalizer. Most 9mm midsize pistols or a 38spl revolver are easy enough for anyone to handle safely and effectively.

And here is another way to look at it. Criminals are not stupid, and they are opportunists. Lets say they know for a fact that you do not have a gun, and your neighbor does. Who are they going to rob? Tough choice, huh. A gun is a great deterant, and when everyone has one, people are much more polite as the stakes are higher. You would not start a fight with an armed man if you were not armed, just not a good idea. If you are both armed, the element of suprise is there, but you still run the risk of getting shot, which is alot worse than a black eye or some bruised ribs.

I will never understand the issues with guns. You would not try to frame a house up with a 10oz hammer, you would use a nailgun, faster, easier and more effective. Same thing, why protect your family and possesions with a stick when you could use a gun? I can only think that people lack the guts to end another persons life. Not like we are running out of people, and the ones who want to start trouble better be ready to reap what they sew. If every criminal though he had a damn good chance of being shot to death he would rethink the situation. These criminals are not going away, no matter how much "hope and change" you wish for. Being armed and ready is just good sense to me.

Crime is more prevalent here in the US, and it is spreading out of the major areas too. I live in the suburbs, and own a business. I have a gun handy in the places I frequent, in my house, my car, and my business. I had to run off a vagrant recently who was drunk and combative. I had a broomstick at the time, and would have been happier to have a gun. He would have got a beating from me, and I was sober so I had some advantage. It all depends where you stand. Get in a situation where you need a weapon and the best weapon is not good enough.

[JERRY2KONE]

Some of your argument is a bit scewed James. When was the last time you saw or heard of any well trained martial artist robbing a house? Or a cage fighter who commits home invasions? A bit exagerated don't you think? Your discription of how smart thieves are is a bit over rated as well. Have you watched COPs much lately. The average violent criminal is a pretty stupid individual, hence this is why they are engaging in criminal behavior in the first place. they fail to achieve a decsent education and end up getting involved in situations that result in robbery, petty theft, or even home envasions and car jakings. Most people with an above average IQ just do not need to do things like this, because they are smart enough to better their own lives without violence.

Sure we all need to take steps to protect our property and our family, but at what cost? If anyone is stupid enough to break into someone elses home and try to take what is yours by force or otherwise deserves a beating. A death sentence is a bit harsh, and facing a jury for doing so is just rediculous, but we know it happens in the USA. I would not want someone elses death on my hands and having to deal with charges of exsesive force, because some poor guy made the mistake of entering my home whatever the reason. Just dealing with killing someone would be hard enough. How many people have you killed so far? Talk with Vet's who have served in the desert and killed. Ask them how it feels. It haunts you for the rest of your life, and they had to do it because of war under orders. I get your point, but make it with reality statements. I know the world is a dangerous place. Most violent crime happens because people are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Usually places they should not have been in the first place.

[SunnyHouTX]

Originally Posted by JERRY2KONE

Sure we all need to take steps to protect our property and our family, but at what cost? If anyone is stupid enough to break into someone elses home and try to take what is yours by force or otherwise deserves a beating. A death sentence is a bit harsh, and facing a jury for doing so is just rediculous, but we know it happens in the USA. I would not want someone elses death on my hands and having to deal with charges of exsesive force, because some poor guy made the mistake of entering my home whatever the reason. Just dealing with killing someone would be hard enough. How many people have you killed so far? Talk with Vet's who have served in the desert and killed. Ask them how it feels. It haunts you for the rest of your life, and they had to do it because of war under orders. I get your point, but make it with reality statements. I know the world is a dangerous place. Most violent crime happens because people are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Usually places they should not have been in the first place.

Here's where there's a difference Jerry. The vets were under orders to kill. Some of them might not agree with the war they were fighting so the nightmares maybe real. But I'm willing to bet top dollar that a guy/gal defending his/her family/property/life is in a completely different mindset. Agreed? Yeah, he/she may have a couple of hours/days of lost sleep but the hugs/kisses from the rest of the family and the hi-fives from the neighbors and most importantly knowing that they protected their family from harm will get them sleeping again in no time.

Agreed as well that violent crime happens for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. But that is an argument made for an unarmed victim out in the streets. Not for a burglar who was shot dead for entering into a house of a resident of a state that allows deadly force in such instances. That's the answer to your dilemma about facing a jury Jerry. Move to any of the 12 -15 states that have a "Castle Bill" and you'll be free to defend what's rightfully yours without feeling guilty.