Damnit, the Lipo battery industry needs better standards!

[sikeston34m]

Originally Posted by Freezebyte

Its starting to look like im going to hobbyking for Lipos now. Wonder if theres any major differences between turnigy and zippys

The Turnigy's are better IMO.

They have noticeably more punch, run cooler and more mah are returned on the charger.

The Pack's I am comparing are Apples to Apples.

4S 20C 5000mah Zippy's
4S 20C 5000mah Turnigy's

My E Revo setup:
MMM ESC
Medusa 36-60-1500kv geared 22/40 using Mod 1 gears.

I had to upgrade the driveshafts to Traxxas CVD's, because it kept snapping the stock Drive Shafts. I run a tight slipper.

This is in an E Revo. Notice the gearing, this isn't a "light" amp draw setup.

I've seen discharge graphs on both the 20C/30C Turnigy's and the 30C/40C Turnigy's. I'm pretty sure they are the same cell.

Compare the weights and cell sizes.

I also run a set of 30C 5000mah Turnigy's and notice No Difference except the 30C packs come with 8Ga. Wire. Yeah, 8Ga.

The 20C packs come with 10Ga. Wire.

The Turnigy's will outperform SMC I'm sure.

[sikeston34m]

Here's a 3S Turnigy 20C 5000mah discharge graph. It's half of a 6S setup being ran in a Savage Flux.

The Max was 112 amp draw. If you look on the graph at the 112 amp spike, it's holding 11.1 volts. That's 3.7 volts per cell.

That's more than 20C.

Originally Posted by sikeston34m

Here's a 3S Turnigy 20C 5000mah discharge graph. It's half of a 6S setup being ran in a Savage Flux.

The Max was 112 amp draw. If you look on the graph at the 112 amp spike, it's holding 11.1 volts. That's 3.7 volts per cell.

That's more than 20C.

Can you elaborate a bit more on what i'm seeing on this graph? its kinda fuzzy and hard to read the details.

[redshift]

Not sure myself, some other members have had both. Anything 30c and up would be fine I am quite sure. I wouldn't worry about getting 45C crazy, and if you're willing to ditch hardcases you'll have lots more fit options.

About the Nimh's, I have to disagree. The market for them remains for the same reason the nitro market remains... because a moron is born every minute. Those of you who actually enjoy nitro may disregard the previous statement...

They are temperamental. And peaky. And nuclear hot when you're done.
Go ahead and try some in your Flux

You have a bad frame of reference. That's all. just get rid of them. Do it quick- band aid quick, and it won't hurt much.

[redshift]

^listen to that guy^

wow $33 http://hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store..._30C_Lipo_Pack

Forgot if you're running 4 or 6s...

Hmm, I may go with Turnigys then and hell, go 3S this time for that price. I'm stick of paying with my soul for Lipo's and getting the shaft.....

[Slowkrawl]

Originally Posted by Freezebyte

Hmm, I may go with Turnigys then and hell, go 3S this time for that price. I'm stick of paying with my soul for Lipo's and getting the shaft.....

There ya go! I am sure you will love 6s. Some guys like the "driveability" of 4s, whereas I see it like...I'd rather have too much power than not enough.

Originally Posted by Slowkrawl

There ya go! I am sure you will love 6s. Some guys like the "driveability" of 4s, whereas I see it like...I'd rather have too much power than not enough.

I'll probably wait till spring for new Lipos, im not gonna be able to do much more driving with the temperature dipping up here.

EDIT: WEDNESDAY FOLLOW UP

I decided to give Bryan at SMC another today and verify some information about their SMC Lipos, specifically what the safest route is to keep them in a charged and discharged state:

Me: Yes, is this Bryan?
Bryan: Yes it is
Me: Bryan this is Freezebyte again from Montana
Bryan: Hey Freeze, good to hear from you again, what can I do for ya?
Me: Well, I'm calling to give you and update on the condition of my Lipo after I discharged them and left around 1000mAh inside them which put them at around 7.3v. The puffing seem to have gone down a little bit.
Bryan: Ok, you should be in the clear then, the new Lipo cell chemistry is a bit more forgiving then the older batch, so just keep an eye on it.
Me: Sounds good which brings me to my follow up question that I couldn't remember your full answer to. For your guy's SMC Lipos and cells inside them, what is the maximum and safest amount of time to keep them at a fully charge state that won't damage the cells?
Bryan: For our Lipo's, no more then 1 day, 24 hours max. Past that, you greatly increase the risk of causing the chemicals inside our cells to start to break down and risk puffing. I know it sucks, I know its a bit inconvienent for some people but our Lipo's are designed for performance and racing and arn't as forgiving as other "generic" Lipo's. Theres a tradeoff, you either want really good performance Lipo's that require more attention and care or you can have lesser performance but be able to beat the crap out the Lipo for extended periods of time. Its like a Ford Focus ya know, its built to last and go for miles and miles but it sure as hell ain't gonna win you any street races vs a Ferrari. Each one is built for a different reason and use.
Me: Well, that makes perfect sense, I didn't think about that
Bryan: Yeah, the cells we use in our Lipo's are designed to give maximum punch and power for racing needs and that comes at a price, in this case, they require more attention to their charged and discharged state and react poorly when you over or under discharge them vs other Lipos. I know at one race one of the guys their was using Orion packs and was doing pretty good but was having issues over some bigger jumps. He asked if he could borrow one of ours and he was able to clear the jumps no problem now. I"m not saying Orions are crap, they do make good stuff, but I don't think they are geared for real high end demands like our packs are designed for, however the tradeoff is that you can beat, abuse and use them over and over and they just keep taking it. It just a matter of what you want out of the Lipo.
Me: Yeah, i've heard peeps saying that their Turnigys and Zippys are sitting charged for days or weeks on end with no ill effect and last a bit longer
Bryan: Yeah, Orions are apparently the same way, but we've also seen the performance difference between their packs and ours on the track so its either babying a high performance pack more or be able to hammer and beat up a pack but have less performance, you can't have both.
Me: Well, that makes alot of sense now that you put it that way. I"m glad I asked and now know how to properly care for your guy's particular Lipo's and cells. Thanks so much again Bryan, I really appreciate it
Bryan: Hey your most welcome, glad to be of help. Give us a call if you have any other questions or concerns, thats what were hear for. Oh and congrads on your truck in the new RC Car action! Sweet looking color scheme, simple but nicely laid out with the wheels and tires and even nicer scenery and bashing spot, im jealous!
Me: Lol, well thanks so much! I am pretty proud of it myself and I just heard that my truck also made RC Driver in the Jan 2010 issue!
Bryan: Really? We'll congrads again, I'll keep my eye out for that one too! I'd kill to have a bashing spot like you have up there, especially with that scenery!
Me: Ironic, you want my bashing spot, and I want your guys big races and events, lol Thanks again Bryan, take care!
Bryan: You too freeze!

So there ya have it folks, straight from the horses mouth. Needless to say, i've decided I want more "bulletproof and forgiving" Lipos for my needs. I hate babying crap as it doesn't make this hobby fun when I have to spend extra time and effort into something as simple as a battery. Im gonna order some Turnigys when my SMC's give out and take this as another valuable lesson learned in the new world of Lipo and RC usage.

[Unsullied_Spy]

Be sure to watch your temps on 6s. You will actually be increasing the wattage being put out by the motor therefore increasing the heat it's putting out (it's not 100% efficient, afterall). If you can swing the cash, I'd go with 4s and 6s so you can have insane power when you want it but you can also tame it down to a more reasonable level.

Originally Posted by Unsullied_Spy

Be sure to watch your temps on 6s. You will actually be increasing the wattage being put out by the motor therefore increasing the heat it's putting out (it's not 100% efficient, afterall). If you can swing the cash, I'd go with 4s and 6s so you can have insane power when you want it but you can also tame it down to a more reasonable level.

Yes Mr. 6s muggy showoff

[sikeston34m]

Originally Posted by Freezebyte

Yes Mr. 6s muggy showoff

LOL

Hey Unsullied. How's that Medusa 80mm holding up?

[Unsullied_Spy]

Originally Posted by Freezebyte

Yes Mr. 6s muggy showoff

See, I DO occassionally know what I'm talking about 170 degrees in 12 minutes is rather hot for a motor. If you want to run for the length of your batteries (I'm guessing 20-30 minutes) you'll want to make sure you aren't overheating or you can demagnetize the rotor. I'm sure you've noticed how obsessive I am about temperatures and as a result I've never cooked an ESC, motor, or battery as a result (saving a lot of money and frustration). I've never run one of those motors on 6s so I have no idea how long it will take to get beyond nominal temperatures but if you aren't careful you'll be making another thread about how pissed off you are at toasting a $140 motor.

Originally Posted by sikeston34m

LOL

Hey Unsullied. How's that Medusa 80mm holding up?

Still holding up great. Had to Loctite the rear endbell back on after a few too many standing backflips but still alive and working hard to make me go broke buying tires

[JThiessen]

Hey Freeze - did you adjust your gearing after you changed your diff's?

Originally Posted by JThiessen

Hey Freeze - did you adjust your gearing after you changed your diff's?

Negative, didn't see any reason too