New Arizona SB1070 Law

[BrianG]

It's funny to me to see very similar sentiments from just about anyone I talk to (even people with Hispanic descent), yet the media would have you think otherwise. I guess they are counting on the people who do not have minds of their own, and accept what they are told at face value.

Legal immigrants are fine; they have gone through the due process and made the effort to assimilate to us, not the other way around. Those are the people that are welcome. The illegals are just here for the free ride and are getting it. And until that gravy train comes to a stop, no amount of border patrol or so-called legislation is going to help.

I have a new idea: If you are pro-illegal immigrant, then how about if we stuff your house with them, you have to feed them, you have to clothe them, you have to educate them, you have to provide medical care, you have to learn their language and provide them with all documents and media in their language, you have to accept and support their culture, you are responsible for any illegal actions they may perform, and you have to provide them an income. All of this is to be provided from your income with no gov't assistance whatsoever.

[pinkpanda3310]

Originally Posted by BrianG

I have a new idea: If you are pro-illegal immigrant, then how about if we stuff your house with them, you have to feed them, you have to clothe them, you have to educate them, you have to provide medical care, you have to learn their language and provide them with all documents and media in their language, you have to accept and support their culture, you are responsible for any illegal actions they may perform, and you have to provide them an income. All of this is to be provided from your income with no gov't assistance whatsoever.

I'm sure pro-illegals would be up for that if they could just find that elusive tree the gov. apparently has. They live in a dream world

[zeropointbug]

One thing that can be said about the Californian economy and Mexicans, is that they are the economy, without them, the state would not have been what it is today... or what it USED to be before almost 2 years ago. They are willing to do the physical work where the common Caucasian won't. (Or perhaps they can't for money reasons?)

One thing I noticed before I moved away from the city is that the amount of Philippine workers were coming in and stealing our jobs, or rather, the employers were firing the local and get a boat load of cheap workers, what a load of shit. When I first moved to the city I got a job working for a trailer manufacturing outfit for oil sands in Alberta, anyways they hired 3 locals, I was one, we worked our asses of for 2 weeks and then for no reason fired us, saying we are not going to 'work out' here. We were the only locals working there if you can believe it, the rest were Philippine and Mexican Visa workers. Then we found out they we hiring more foreigners in a mixture of 30 Philippine and Mexican workers for 1 year work Visa's. I was infuriated about that for the longest time. I know we worked our butts off and did quality work, not good enough.... not good enough for the bottom line is what it was! They paid them 30% less than what we got paid.

Anyways, I hope more states follow suit with Arizona on this, as well as the Healthcare Bill crap. I am Canadian, but I know it's only a matter of time that it affects us.

[zeropointbug]

What happened to the government serving us, not the other way around. If you got rid of the Feds, any given country would be far better off, and would be able to flourish, with no artificial economy either.

[lutach]

Here's another thing I noticed a lot. Every time I go to the Super Market, I don't see the Latinos with Food Stamps. They pay for the things they buy with Cash. I do see more and more Americans using it though (Blacks and Whites). Sorry to bring races to this, but I'm not racial since I'm a mixture of Native Brasilian Indians, African and Portuguese and my daughter is half Brasilian/half Black. So the thing with Food Stamps and Medicare/Medicaid might not be accurate. From what I know one has to provide their income to get such benefits, so I don't know how a person who can't show their income can receive the above mentioned. It would be nice to see what would happen if all the Illegal Immigrants went back. I know many Brasilians are going back to Brasil (Illegal or not). Basically they are finding harder to live here in the USA and Brasil needs people who knows how to speak English.

One other thing I forgot to mention. I also think a primary language should be used always. Example: USA's primary language is English so every thing should be in English. Brasil's primary language is Portuguese so every thing should be in Portuguese. That should slow down or stop Illegal Immigrants from going to a country. The ID thing is nice. Get pulled over and one doesn't have the proper ID, they should require their country's embassy to pay for the person to go back to their country.

[PBO]

Originally Posted by zeropointbug

One thing that can be said about the Californian economy and Mexicans, is that they are the economy, without them, the state would not have been what it is today...

Good point & one I was going to raise also

The US economy does to an extent survive on minimum wage earners, without the low min wage the cost of goods & services would rise proportionate to the min wage. Middle America's standard of living would erode very quickly if it were raised significantly

It's a catch 22 for the US economy, a situation that appears to encourage illegals to enter because they are almost guaranteed a job that will allow them to fly under the radar

[zeropointbug]

Well I don't know about food cost rising as much as a guy would first think, because as most food processors know, the cost of food is not from the cost of labor of say picking fruits and veggies, but in transportation, packaging, more transportation, processed, transported again to the super market, etc. For any food product that is procesed a bit and packed/bottled, the actual price of the food is a fraction of the end products price. We are literally eating oil. That is why I have a 100 mile diet, well majority of my food, comes from well within 100 miles from where I live, mostly within 15 miles, especially in summer. Did you guys know that 100 years ago there was roughly 1 calorie of energy to get 10 calories from our food? TODAY, that figure has reversed, to 10 calories in, 1 calorie out, where is it coming from? Oil. That's a 100 folder increase in entropy.

Rabosi, exactly, in the end I think it is costing our countries MORE hiring abroad than to hire locals. For sure.

[BrianG]

More info: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...rss=rss_nation

[rabosi]

To be fair, everyone in Arizona (and the whole country imo) regardless of color should have to carry proof of citizenship. Mexicans or brown people are not the only illegal immigrants. There are also many illegal Europeans and Asians here. I think a national I.D. card would be a great idea. No I.D. card, no government services. I can only see someone being against the I.D. card if they have something to hide or are fearful of law enforcement abuses. But in that case you would also have to be against the Arizona law (law enforcement abuses).
I'm against illegals and the freebies they get but if you think that they account for the majority of our tax dollars, then you have been drinking the Kool-aid. IMO most of the waste come from legal americans scamming the system in some way. This includes businessmen and politicians.
Concerning illegals, I've heard some of them are able to acquire legal documents such as SS cards and driver's license by paying off employees that work in those offices which if true is a travesty itself.

[pinkpanda3310]

Originally Posted by rabosi

I'm against illegals and the freebies they get but if you think that they account for the majority of our tax dollars, then you have been drinking the Kool-aid. IMO most of the waste come from legal americans scamming the system in some way. This includes businessmen and politicians.

Your right, they are no the biggest portion of tax, but don't you reckon it's frustrating working and living in a place where illegals can just show up and are given the money you paid in tax. 'Nevermind building a new school we've got to build a detention centre.'

And don't you worry about the white collars, Skase will go down in Australian history as a complete f#!@* and *#@!#$ with ^%$#@! dirty !@#$%$........

[BrianG]

Originally Posted by rabosi

...I'm against illegals and the freebies they get but if you think that they account for the majority of our tax dollars, then you have been drinking the Kool-aid. IMO most of the waste come from legal americans scamming the system in some way. This includes businessmen and politicians...

I must have missed this. And no, I doubt it's the majority of tax dollars, but it's an amount that we can quantify and should NOT be paying.

[rabosi]

Originally Posted by BrianG

I must have missed this. And no, I doubt it's the majority of tax dollars, but it's an amount that we can quantify and should NOT be paying.

Agreed. Any dollars is too much. I was directing to the folks who say they should leave because too much taxes etc etc. I know it's not perfect here, but I feel it's the best country in the world by far. If we could only figure out how to use/control our money better. (If I could only figure that myself).
As for amnesty, I'm an immigrant myself and I just hate the fact that illegals are jumping the line so to speak. That's one of the reason I think amnesty is a bad idea. It rewards the rule breakers.

[TexasSP]

What's amazing to me is how complicated the government and some people want to make it seem when in actuality it's a very simple concept.

They also want to paint those against illegal immigration as racist and anti immigration then bring up that this is a country of immigrants. Well basically every country is a country is a country of immigrants.

Immigration is great and many of my friends are immigrants. They did it the correct and legal way while also supporter the US and not staying beholden to their own country of origin.

The other argument is the one how the illegals do the jobs that US citizens won't do. This is one of the biggest lies there is. Many will do the jobs but cannot afford to work for the wages that illegals do. When the illegals keep all of their income plus the hand outs they get from the government compared to a citizen who pays 25% in taxes and must cover their own food and medical costs, it doesn't even compare.

You take a guy that makes 30k per year, then take out 6k for medical, 7.5k for taxes, 12k for rent/mortgage, another 3k for food, then the other miscellaneous expense he has nothing left.

Well take an illegal, they may make 20k in cash, 0k to taxes, 0k to health care, 0k to food (food stamps/welfare covers this) then add in subsidized housing, they still end up with at least 15k a year for whatever while the citizen who supposedly makes more ends up with zero.

Proponents of amnesty want to make things more complicated when in reality it's simple math and economics. Just like figuring debt and budgets. Many in the government would try to convince you that government debt is somehow healthy and/or different from personal debt. It's BS, debt is debt and the borrower is ALWAYS slave to the lender. Not too mention the government is creating the same scenario that caused Enron and many others to collapse and the government can and will collapse. If the numbers don't add up at the end of the day you have a problem.

Then get down to profiling. Profiling is a key law enforcement tool and it's absolutely naive to see it any other way. Take me for example:

If the cops get a report that a 30-40 year old Caucasian male with a bald head and goatee approximately 5'10" to 6'10" just robbed a convenience store and was seen going south or north street in a black SUV, I can find it reasonable that the police would pull me over in my black 4runner if I was anywhere in the area. Would I like it, no. Would I understand it, yes. Would I complain and whine because it happened, no. I would be happy the police were doing their jobs well.

Same goes with border protection. If your on the southern border you will be looking more at people of Latin and Middle Eastern descent. If you are on the northern border you will look more at people of European/Caucasian as well as other descent.

If you are in the airport you sure as heck should not be wasting time looking at little old ladies in wheel chairs.

Again, profiling is just one of many tools in the law enforcement arsenal used to fight crime.

[BrianG]

According to the AZ law, even a valid drivers license will suffice. If the person cannot provide a license, or if it appears fake, the officer can then request other forms of ID.

I don't understand the resistance against ID'ing people; after all, I get ID'd whenever I buy cigarettes, alcohol, or get stopped by the police. I carry my ID with me at all times.

And to be clear, I am also not talking just about Mexicans. Like you said, this applies to all illegals. It's just that the AZ law is primarily targeted towards that ethnic group simply because they are the problems right now.

Oh, and in case your blood isn't already boiling, take a gander: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...izona-rancher/

[lutach]

Here's what I would do. Don't bash me for thinking this way .

Why not give the Illegal Immigrants some sort of Social Security Number. I know many Brasilians who uses such a number for Taxes Purposes and they do pay their taxes. That way, the so called Illegal Immigrants can pay their taxes as well.

Now I'll add some more.

America as I know, was founded by Illegal Immigrants as well. So was Brasil. Non asked the Native people permission to do any of the things they did. Now, what drives an Immigrant to the USA? Lets see, I own a company and have 2 potential employee applying for a job. Employee A is an American who just graduated H.S. and is looking for a career and Employee B is an Immigrant who also just graduated H.S. and is also looking for a career. Employee A wants $45,000 a year, but Employee B want $25,000 a year for the same job. Who would I hire, I would hire Employee B for the simple fact that he will save me $20,000 a year plus he speaks a second language.

Man good thing I'm a one person show or I would get flamed for sure . If big Corp. (Specially in constructions) stop getting Illegal Immigrants to work for them, this problem would be a little less than what it is right now. I know a lot of Americans that have baby sitters and house cleaners that are Illegal Immigrants, but as the family bonds with the Illegal Immigrants they are offered a sponsorship to get their Green Card so they can now pay their taxes. More people paying taxes, more money for the Country and then what? How will the Country use that money? Will they bail out more banks, car manufacturers, mortgage companies, insurance companies and so forth? How many of you small business owner's have gone to one of the bail out banks to get a loan? How many of you got that loan?

Brian and anyone else here, Brasil is a pretty good place to retire to .