Neu and Mamba Max Combo

[Sower]

Sounds like we really need someone with experience using the Lehner motor with the MM. I might be the guinnea pig here.:005:

Now if we could ever get the dang Lehners in stock! :002:

[BrianG]

lol, my thoughts exactly! I really think the LMT will run just fine on the MM since the LMTs seem to be more of a conventional design.

From the very little testing I've done with the Quark/Neu combo, it runs silky smooth at very low rpms with absolutely no cogging.

[Sower]

Originally Posted by BrianG

lol, my thoughts exactly! I really think the LMT will run just fine on the MM since the LMTs seem to be more of a conventional design.

From the very little testing I've done with the Quark/Neu combo, it runs silky smooth at very low rpms with absolutely no cogging.

Yeah, I was thinking of the Quark too, but I just love the ease of use with the MM. Plus, the dollars of the Quark/Neu combo are about the same as the MM/Lehner.

[BrianG]

True, not much beats the MM programming, but programming the Quark isn't exactly difficult either.

[Sower]

Right. I think the other thing for me though is that the Quark seems to under perform it's specs and the MM seems to over perform. I've heard of guys having issues with the Quark on 5 cells or running hot. I think I'm back to the Lehner 1950 and the MM.

[jhautz]

I actually did some comparison testing with the Neu and the Lehner motors on a MM. And I am the one that fried the MM with the Neu motor cogging.

The Neu/MM in my experiments was not an acceptable combination to me. I had a fairly repeatable issue with the Neu motor severely cogging on the MM. Using the same set up, just swapping the Neu out for the Lehner motor I got much smoother operation. In my opinion the MM is still not as smooth as the Quark. I literally don’t think I can make the Quark cog with any setup.

The MM is a great little controller and has demonstrated capabilities well over the specs that CC has set for it. But IMO it’s too small of a controller for 1/8 truggies and monster trucks and you are better off going with something a little bigger. And if you are planning to run a Neu you should not choose the MM either. Also if you want to run 5s it’s really pushing the limits on the MM. This is just my opinion.

The Quark on the other hand does have some heat issues, and doesn’t perform that well on 6s even though it is speced for it. Most aren’t running 6s for racing though and on anything less than 6s it’s the smoothest ESC out there IMO. The other downside is the known heat issue with the Quarks. This is easily solved by mounting the ESC flat to an aluminum chassis or using some sort of heat sink on the back of the case.

If you are going with the MM the Lehner is the way to go IMO. At least until CC gets a solution out for the Neu. I actually did talk to a few people over at CC about this and I was told that the MM was optimized to squeeze every last bit out of the Mamaba motors and that other motors performance suffered because of this. But, the Lehner motors were very similar to the Mamba motors and they would have the most sucess.

Here is a little video that I made a while back comparing the start up of the MM with a Neu and Lehner motor when I was testing the MM.

http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...rs12-18-06.flv

I was planning on using the MM in a 1/8 buggy and in the end wound up going to the Quark for the project for all of the reasons listed above. I still have the MM that I got replaced with the $50 no questions asked policy sitting in its box waiting for the day CC comes out with the software update. Then I'll give it anouther try.

BTW: I don’t really think that CC is that worried about the Neu fix and thats why its taking so long. They are selling and marketing this thing to be used in 1/10 stadium trucks and buggies and on road Cars, not 1/8 and Monster trucks. 99% of the MM users out there are using it in its intended application with the Mamba motors and having no issues. It’s just a few extremists like us that are searching for its limits.

EDIT: AA, to answer your question. If you are staying with the MM go with the Lehner motor. At this point its a much better combo. IMO

[Sower]

Hmmm. So maybe I'm back to the Neu/Quark. :002:

[Sower]

Hey jhautz . . . so you designed the heat sink for the Quark eh? Any photos of it with the fans and installed in a vehicle? I would like to see it it you have any. Thanks.

And so the plot thickens....

OK then, what about a comparison of the Quark/Nue combo to the MM/Lehner combo.

Quark ($280) + Nue ($250ish for smooth can) = $530

MM ($135) + Lehner ($300) = $435

From a "starting from scratch" perspective the $95 or so difference in price shouldn't really sway anyone, considering the expense of time and money that have already gone into a conversion, so they are about on roughly equal footing.

If you already have a MM (which many do), then it's almost a no brainer. The complicating factor for me is that I like to have two ESCs. You just never know, and I hate my fun filled weekend to be put on hold because a little smoke escaped. For the price of one Quark, I can get two MMs.

I also have to deal with my own personality quirk. I just know myself. With all of the good things I've heard about the Quark/Neu combo, I'll always be wondering if that was the way that I should have gone, if I get the Lehner. From a financial standpoint, it's a matter of spending $300 or $530 and then more $ for the extra esc.

That was really the purpose of this post. I wanted to know how the MM/Neu combo runs, which I now know; and I also wanted to find out if the Lehner is every bit as good a motor as the Neu (from and power and efficiency standpoint). What about the shallow mounting holes on the Lehner that more than one person has commented about? Is it really an issue?

Oh, I also wanted to ask...what's the deal with the Lehner "hi-amp" version, other than not being limited to the use of 3.5mm plugs? Will it draw more current, or can it just handle more current?

Will it work with the RC Monster heatsink? Do you even need a heatsink?

[Sower]

Well, I can't answer all of your questions, but I can tell you the heatsink for the Lehner will depend on the gearing and size of the motor you select. But the short answer from my research is that you will not need a heat sink. Especially with the hi-amp because it will run cooler. I'm sure someone has a way better answer than that. :005:

You might check the thread I started on this Neu vs Lehner deal for my upcoming CRT conversion. Here's the link:

http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5611

From what I understand, the Lehner motors are some of the most (if not THE most) efficient motors on earth.

Anyone else have some better info than me here?:027:

[Sower]

jhautz . . . dude, I just checked your photo album and saw my old Neu powered XXX4 G+!! That brought back memories - very cool.

Sorry all of you for that tangent. I'll stay on topic. :eek:

[glassdoctor]

Originally Posted by Sower

From what I understand, the Lehner motors are some of the most (if not THE most) efficient motors on earth.

Anyone else have some better info than me here?:027:

According to the guys at CC (if we can trust them ?) the Neu are hands down the most effecient motors "on earth"... at least on r/c earth.

:D

AA, I belive the HiAmp motors, besides the connector differences, let you run them in either delta or wye configuration which changes the kv... it's like getting two motors in one. But I haven't really paid attention to them, maybe I'm missing something.

btw, the 4mm shaft on the Lehners stink... too bad they don't just go 5mm like everthing else.

If you already have a Quark I think the answer is obviouls... buy a Neu.

If you already have a MM or want to stay with CC, then buy a Lehner.

Since you want a second back up system that makes it harder... two Quarks is a lot of jack.

For now I am staying in the CC camp and hoping that they really deliver the goods with the MMM.

If you buy a Lehner and a second MM that's cheaper, plus you never know... the update may do the trick and you can pick up a new Neu motor. :)

[jhautz]

http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3771

This is the original thread on that heatsink. The first post has pictures with it alone, with fans and installed on my revo with the quark. Heh, I was still running my 9XL in it back then. :002: Its got a Neu in it now.

The Quark/Neu or Quark/Lehner are still the best setups IMO. The Lehner and Neu motors are just about equal in my book as far as performance, but the Quark is still the best all around controller in my book. Smooth, plenty of programaing options, a built in LVC and with some sort of heat sink it handles plenty of power. Its not perfect, but its the best thing available right now IMO.

[Sower]

Originally Posted by jhautz

http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3771

This is the original thread on that heatsink. The first post has pictures with it alone, with fans and installed on my revo with the quark. Heh, I was still running my 9XL in it back then. :002: Its got a Neu in it now.

The Quark/Neu or Quark/Lehner are still the best setups IMO. The Lehner and Neu motors are just about equal in my book as far as performance, but the Quark is still the best all around controller in my book. Smooth, plenty of programaing options, a built in LVC and with some sort of heat sink it handles plenty of power. Its not perfect, but its the best thing available right now IMO.

The challenge with the Quark for me is the value. It's expensive, and needs fans and a heat sink. I guess it's just tough for me to buy it when the MM is so close to being it's equal, costs 1/2 as much, and is so easy to program.