Inside my full scale AC brushless motor

[BrianG]

Unless battery technology changes dramatically, or solar power becomes much more efficient, I don't think we will see high power and long range in the same vehicle very soon. Power is V X A, and even a HV setup will pull some serious current to get high HP figures.

So, what about the use of turbine engines as a generator? I would imagine an engine could be tuned for maximum efficiency for a certain rpm and could run that all the time. And a turbine has less losses IIRC (higher efficiency). So, hook up a small ~50HP one to charge the batteries. For most people, a measely 200HP is all that's needed for decent launches (barring racing), and it only takes a small fraction of that power to keep a car moving at highway speeds. So, the batteries would provide the current peaks for starts, and they would be continually charged by the generator. You'd still have a range limit when you run out of fuel or your discharge is greater than the battery mAh combined with the charge rate of the engine/generator.

Twin 500HP motors with a 200m range? Hmm, let's see; 1000HP is 746,000w. If "only" 5% of that is needed to maintain normal speeds on the highway, that's still 37,300w (50HP). At say 400v, that's over 93A. To get 200m range at 70mph, you'd need 2.85 hours of runtime. That equates to 265Ah. Even doubling that voltage would still need ~132Ah. Still a lot of cells no matter how you set up the voltage. So, there's gotta be something to charge the system to get that kind of runtime. Or am I way off base here?

[lutach]

Originally Posted by BrianG

Unless battery technology changes dramatically, or solar power becomes much more efficient, I don't think we will see high power and long range in the same vehicle very soon. Power is V X A, and even a HV setup will pull some serious current to get high HP figures.

So, what about the use of turbine engines as a generator? I would imagine an engine could be tuned for maximum efficiency for a certain rpm and could run that all the time. And a turbine has less losses IIRC (higher efficiency). So, hook up a small ~50HP one to charge the batteries. For most people, a measely 200HP is all that's needed for decent launches (barring racing), and it only takes a small fraction of that power to keep a car moving at highway speeds. So, the batteries would provide the current peaks for starts, and they would be continually charged by the generator. You'd still have a range limit when you run out of fuel or your discharge is greater than the battery mAh combined with the charge rate of the engine/generator.

Twin 500HP motors with a 200m range? Hmm, let's see; 1000HP is 746,000w. If "only" 5% of that is needed to maintain normal speeds on the highway, that's still 37,300w (50HP). At say 400v, that's over 93A. To get 200m range at 70mph, you'd need 2.85 hours of runtime. That equates to 265Ah. Even doubling that voltage would still need ~132Ah. Still a lot of cells no matter how you set up the voltage. So, there's gotta be something to charge the system to get that kind of runtime. Or am I way off base here?

When I saw what SSC posted, I thought he found some alien technology and I know most of it is like any hyper marketed product. They must say good things to get big money fools to back them up. I hope he can back it up which will be great for the auto industry, but as of now all of it is BS.

I would love to post some of my ideas here, but would hate to see it being used by someone else. With all the components for my car working properly, I can get probably over 1000 miles. The figures have been confirmed by a great team of engineers working for one of the biggest EMS companies and by a great friend of mine who used to prepare my go kart for racing. He btw is a aerodynamic expert who helped me figure out the best possible drag co efficiency to get the numbers I was looking for. It only takes about 20Kw or less (Weight of vehicle and drag co efficiency plays a major part on this) to get a car to maintain 65-80MPH and it only takes that because of the size of these motors being used which makes tons of torque. Electric motors makes power from torque and beyond a certain RPM range that torque goes down and Kw goes up.

[lutach]

zeropointbug,

Here is the link for the Simovert products:

http://www.automation.siemens.com/mc...4fc/index.aspx

The devision I deal with said you can try to call their office here in the US and see if they can help.

[zeropointbug]

BrianG, you actually DO need long range for high power, simply to get the power from a big enough battery.
It's not about a percentage of the max power for highway cruising, it's a specific Wh/mile based on rolling resistance/aerodynamics and to a certain extent, vehicle mass... with an educated guess on Wh/mile for the Ultimate Aero, I would say 220Wh/mile at 65 - 70mph, 220Wh x 65mph = 14,000 watts. 220Wh/mile x 200 miles range = 44,000kwh pack... assuming they use a voltage around 400 volts, 44,000kwh / 400 volts = 110 Ah. This is by not means difficult to do in a super car, this would be roughly 500 - 600lb. battery pack with today's lipo cells.


Lutach, that MIT battery tech was sold to two companies, one being A123, and the other was not stated, but most likely to this Belgium company you talk about.

I would love for you to post all this technology here so I can see it, rather than vaporware.

It's not simply about SSC bull$%&$*#! everyone here, from what they have said, that is WAY past the BS stage, it's a JOKE. So like I said before, it's either all a big sick joke, with the gun pointed at themselves... OR they have harnessed some exotic technology to make their claims real. Everyone laughed at them a few years ago when they said they would make the worlds fastest car, but look at them, they said they would do something, and then they actually went and did exactly what they said they would do, and then some.

Who makes these 200C batteries you speak of? I would love to know.

[zeropointbug]

Brian, what car you referring to when you said use a turbine generator? It would be nice heck yah, but it would be loud. Regular piston generators can be had for a few grand for a 15kW unit, for my little car project this would be perfect, providing the highway cruising power is the calculated 8kW. These generators are quite efficient, and can run 100% continuously.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by zeropointbug

BrianG, you actually DO need long range for high power, simply to get the power from a big enough battery.
It's not about a percentage of the max power for highway cruising, it's a specific Wh/mile based on rolling resistance/aerodynamics and to a certain extent, vehicle mass... with an educated guess on Wh/mile for the Ultimate Aero, I would say 220Wh/mile at 65 - 70mph, 220Wh x 65mph = 14,000 watts. 220Wh/mile x 200 miles range = 44,000kwh pack... assuming they use a voltage around 400 volts, 44,000kwh / 400 volts = 110 Ah. This is by not means difficult to do in a super car, this would be roughly 500 - 600lb. battery pack with today's lipo cells.


Lutach, that MIT battery tech was sold to two companies, one being A123, and the other was not stated, but most likely to this Belgium company you talk about.

I would love for you to post all this technology here so I can see it, rather than vaporware.

It's not simply about SSC bull$%&$*#! everyone here, from what they have said, that is WAY past the BS stage, it's a JOKE. So like I said before, it's either all a big sick joke, with the gun pointed at themselves... OR they have harnessed some exotic technology to make their claims real. Everyone laughed at them a few years ago when they said they would make the worlds fastest car, but look at them, they said they would do something, and then they actually went and did exactly what they said they would do, and then some.

Who makes these 200C batteries you speak of? I would love to know.

I can't mention who makes the cells as I would hate to loose my client. They make them for military use and thrust me they are robust. Have you contacted the Canadian companies that are in the industry? If I had the cash and the backing of a big company, I would take all my ideas off the drawing board.

Here is a German company that has a nice looking inverter: http://www.magnet-motor.de/en/home/p...r-electronics/.
It's the S31. They also make a nice little motor the M68.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by zeropointbug

Brian, what car you referring to when you said use a turbine generator? It would be nice heck yah, but it would be loud. Regular piston generators can be had for a few grand for a 15kW unit, for my little car project this would be perfect, providing the highway cruising power is the calculated 8kW. These generators are quite efficient, and can run 100% continuously.

I think Jay Leno is working on one. Like you said turbines will be loud and it would also be a headache if the thing ever fails.

[zeropointbug]

Well I know he has a Turbine super bike, ultra fast, and one the main features is it's able to melts bumpers behind you!

Also, Lutach, I can't find the EV inverters (Simoverts) on that link? I emailed that Magnet-Motor company on a quote for that S31 inverter, hopefully it's <$6000 CAN.... cross my fingers. I also contacted that ISE for a quote on the Siemens DUO, but IIRC, it's quite expensive, and not to mention it has dual motor outputs.

[BrianG]

Originally Posted by zeropointbug

Brian, what car you referring to when you said use a turbine generator? It would be nice heck yah, but it would be loud. Regular piston generators can be had for a few grand for a 15kW unit, for my little car project this would be perfect, providing the highway cruising power is the calculated 8kW. These generators are quite efficient, and can run 100% continuously.

No car that I know of. I was just thinking that turbines have fewer losses. Pistons have a lot more power-robbing friction. Also, turbines operate better at higher speeds, so I just figured if it was tuned for maximum efficiency at a certain rpm, it would be the logical choice. The idea is not to solely power the car from turbine-generated power, but to supplement it. If the car draws 30A constantly in highway conditions, and the generator provides 15A (or more) of current, it would extend the life of the battery pack considerably for the longer runs.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by zeropointbug

Well I know he has a Turbine super bike, ultra fast, and one the main features is it's able to melts bumpers behind you!

Also, Lutach, I can't find the EV inverters (Simoverts) on that link? I emailed that Magnet-Motor company on a quote for that S31 inverter, hopefully it's <$6000 CAN.... cross my fingers. I also contacted that ISE for a quote on the Siemens DUO, but IIRC, it's quite expensive, and not to mention it has dual motor outputs.

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/cars/ecojet_shell.shtml

The link I got from my contact at Siemens, he said to get in touch with the Automation devision which is the one who makes the Simovert inverters. Let me know what Magnet-Motor says and if it's not the price you're looking for, I'll talk with someone who works there.

[lincpimp]

Originally Posted by zeropointbug

Well I know he has a Turbine super bike, ultra fast, and one the main features is it's able to melts bumpers behind you!

Marine Turbine Technologies make the y2k bike you mentioned. I sat on the proto at a car show a while back. MTT is way down south here in LA. He has a few cars with the turbines in them, and does a ton of offshore race boats, fishing boats too. He uses demilled heli motors, IIRC, cheaper as they have maxed out their life expectancy in a heli, but are still good for ground use. I would love to ride that bike, 220mph min... My weak ass zx12r (only 154 hp at the back tire) can only do 195 (at least that is as fast as I have gone on it). I cannot imagine what a bike with 350+ ft/lbs or torque pulls like.

[zeropointbug]

Actually Brian, you know what, a person could even built a home made turbine engine generator from a an ordinary turbo charger from a car. I've seen it been done, if you could only make it quiet, but i don't think you could have that because you need a high quality exhaust system with good metals I would think. Very high temperatures your dealing with. That would definitely be nice to use, maybe some company will come out with some?

[lutach]

zeropointbug,

I sent you some info and 2 of them should not be posted anywhere.

[lutach]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFGy-A68_vY

[zeropointbug]

Hey Linc, I watched the video on the Y2K bike, crazy motha funkers who ride that bike, death on two wheels if you ask me.

I can't imagine what the exhaust gas temps are, must be no less than 2000F, I was visiting with my friend who has an rx-8, which has a rotary (wankel) engine, and the exhaust gases are extremely hot. aronnd... I held my hand almost 4 feet away and I literally thought my hand was under a flame thrower, I burnt all the hairs off my hand! My hand has minor 1st degree burns now, idiot I am.