Zeitgeist Addendum...

[lincpimp]

Funny story: Since I live just north of NeW Orleans we get a group together and go down to the French Quarter before lunch on Mardi Gras day. Fun to just walk around and see the sights, then come home. Well we ran into a few of the "hellfire and brimstone" guys with their big signs and megaphones. Of course they were very opposed to mardi gras (cause partys are bad m'kay). Well one guy had a sign with the types of behavior that will get you sent to hell (something like that). It listed the general stuff, like crime, murder and not being a good house wife (no kidding). well it also had "ankle biters", which refers to small dogs to me. I have a feeling they meant "ankle grabbers" which would be a stab at the gay community (no pun intended). Well I approached the guy and asked him why he had such a downer on small dogs? Of course he looked at me very blankly and gave some sort of self serving reply. My drunk friends would not let it go though, and berated him on his appartent hatred for small dogs. He had no idea what was going on, but it was funny. Then some chic started flashing so we had to go see that...

[ClodMaxx]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

I think you misunderstood my context of the "found God" part. I have never found God because to be found something must have been hidden and it's the expression and the idea it propagates that bothers me.

i gotcha. no worries - it's all good my brother. my interpretation of the 'found' aspect stems from numerous bible references to lost and found... what i interpret is, those who find God are lost before they do. see? so many ways to interpret things. right or wrong.

i give you (and everyone who has chimed in on this thread) a lot of credit. it isn't easy or 'socially acceptable' to tell what you really, really believe. we've all done so on a very civil level. and good story, linc...as usual

[PBO]

OK, so clearly not many of us are fond of the extremist types & moderate people are accepting of each other despite religious views - this is reassuring

My next question is a little more pointed by with the same level of respect for religion;

Why is there so much suffering in the world & why, of those that suffer, are children clearly over represented? surely they are innocent & undeserving of such a 'fate' or 'lesson'?

[TexasSP]

Linc, I loved your post. What a tool. Self righteousness is never commendable from anyone, anywhere, at anytime.

PBO, I think your question is very valid and fair. I do not have the answers personally and they are things I have asked myself.

I will keep this short as I am very tired right now and really need time to pray and reflect to respond the best.

I am respectful because that is what Jesus taught. I can't be filled with hate when he has given me his love when really I did nothing to deserve it. It's really what the song amazing grace is all about.

[TexasSP]

Sorry PBO but it has been a busy weekend and I wasn't trying to ignore you.

The short answer is freewill and choice. If you go back to Genesis, everything was perfect, no pain, no suffering, no sin. Adam and Eve (don't know if the names are really relevant for anything other than having a name but it's who is used) were given everything and only one rule. Stay away from the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil (the apple as many call it). I think the fruit in and of itself is irrelevant as anything but a metaphor although I believe the fruit was real but used by God as a test. Man was tempted and gave in rapidly to it. Adam and Eve disobeyed God's one rule and there by was separated from him and evil introduced into the world. God told them this. At this point faith was necessary to have a relationship with God.

It's funny, many Christians even hold blame on Adam and Eve yet everyday they have the same choices, not to sin. Sin being defined as anything that separates you from God. Sin is a funny thing and while many like to focus on the sin of commission (sins you actively commit), most forget and/or ignore sins of omission. These being sins of things you could have done but refused. ie: helping someone in need and ignoring that need

In reality most of the suffering is caused by Man. I don't even think their needs to be a belief in God to see that this is true. God gave us freewill and choices and he doesn't control what these are.

I will also note that Jesus also focuses heavily on children and the lives of children all through out the Bible. In fact he states that anyone who causes a child to stumble (meaning a variety of things including abuse, molestation etc.) might as well just drown themselves.

The great thing too is that it is very clear that a when a child dies that there is no question that the child goes to Heaven as Jesus commits to taking care of all Children.

Of course this is why we are commanded over and over as Christians to assist the children, the poor and oppressed, along with those who cannot care for themselves.

[zeropointbug]

All I have to say is walk away from religion and all of their fairy tales and hypocrisy. I used to be somewhat christian when I was younger (up to 15 years old IIRC), then I just saw so much hypocrisy, lies, and the whole faith was modeled around an insecure God. Do this, don't do that, be like this, don't be like that, love me, hate the devil, etc.

I couldn't literally go on all day and night about religion, or any other spin off... I hardly feel like doing that anymore. Also, it is ridiculous when someone says that they are christian, but do not agree with religion... that is just idiotic, plain and simple.

[PBO]

zpb, I really believe you have more eloquence & respect in you that reply. Tex is brave enough to bare his beliefs in your thread...whether you agreed or not, I think it deserves respect, no?

[zeropointbug]

What makes you think I was referring to him? Besides, I don't care anymore about people's religious believes, I will say what I want. We don't have time anymore to sit around and seal our lips while religious nuts take over the world, you see, I care about my future, and the way it is going, it doesn't look good. So anyone can prance around and lolly gagging about 'personal believes', not me, I just want people to wake up and smell the roses, literally.

[TexasSP]

PBO, thanks for the kind remarks. zeropoint has a right to his beliefs and that is fine. Again, I do not dislike him or hold anything against him for it. I will still pray for him and you as well as all others in my life whatever that capacity may be. So I say the following not to sound arrogant but to articulate where I stand:

The great thing about my faith is that it is not dependent on any one else's.

Everyone is equally deserving of love.

[zeropointbug]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

I will agree with you that religion is a dangerous thing. However real Christianity has nothing do do with religion but a relationship. The pharisees who had Jesus executed were very religious people.

With all do respect here, I just don't understand how someone can say this... believe me, I have a good friend that is the same way, so you are not the only one, I know lot's of so called Christians like this. Funny thing though they always seem to be the most closed minded, and ignorant... again, I do have quite a few friends like this. They claim they are of true Christianity as well, saying the bible stems from the roots of God.

Christianity = religion = Christianity = Buddhism = Jewish = Catholic = you get the point? Just take a step back and really take a true and honest look at what you are putting your 'faith' in.

I am not trying to attack you Tex, but you are just saying the typical Christian q-card rhetoric that I hear far too often.

[TexasSP]

I have taken a bigger look at the picture than you will ever know, so to point at me and suggest I somehow haven't is a great assumption. I have no power to change the way anyone sees life, I just have the power to live my life as Christ wants me to.

[jayjay283]

What happened to no religion or politics here? LOL anyway so long as we are ruining faith here, I’ll drop my 2 cents. When I took world religions in college from some hippy teacher I really noticed the hypocrisy and why wars are fought and all the crap that goes on. I was raised an Episcopalian. I think that’s something like Catholic light beer. I don’t go to church or pray (except when I’m in jail Jesus seems to be my friend LOL) my religion does come from the bible, Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Karma is real! Buddhism or Zen Christianity or even Ganesh.. I’m not giving the church any 10% of my money, the government takes 40% already so what I get ½ a days wages for a full days work ? Blow me !! The biggest hypocrite I know is my step mother. Church going bible thumping loon, yet the first to sling a racial slur. I believe in a God. He watches over all of us, too much stuff to be just a coincidence. I take care of a kid in Africa named Bellum. Bought him a pig and a water bucket and school clothes and feed him. That crap gives you good karma and would make this God smile. I believe in aliens too thanks to Carl Sagan (rip)

[zeropointbug]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

I have taken a bigger look at the picture than you will ever know, so to point at me and suggest I somehow haven't is a great assumption. I have no power to change the way anyone sees life, I just have the power to live my life as Christ wants me to.

Who is Christ?

[TexasSP]

Christ

anointed, the Greek translation of the Hebrew word rendered "Messiah" (q.v.), the official title of our Lord, occurring five hundred and fourteen times in the New Testament. It denotes that he was anointed or consecrated to his great redemptive work as Prophet, Priest, and King of his people. He is Jesus the Christ (Acts 17:3; 18:5; Matt. 22:42), the Anointed One. He is thus spoken of by Isaiah (61:1), and by Daniel (9:24-26), who styles him "Messiah the Prince." The Messiah is the same person as "the seed of the woman" (Gen. 3:15), "the seed of Abraham" (Gen. 22:18), the "Prophet like unto Moses" (Deut. 18:15), "the priest after the order of Melchizedek" (Ps. 110:4), "the rod out of the stem of Jesse" (Isa. 11:1, 10), the "Immanuel," the virgin's son (Isa. 7:14), "the branch of Jehovah" (Isa. 4:2), and "the messenger of the covenant" (Mal. 3:1). This is he "of whom Moses in the law and the prophets did write." The Old Testament Scripture is full of prophetic declarations regarding the Great Deliverer and the work he was to accomplish. Jesus the Christ is Jesus the Great Deliverer, the Anointed One, the Saviour of men. This name denotes that Jesus was divinely appointed, commissioned, and accredited as the Saviour of men (Heb. 5:4; Isa. 11:2-4; 49:6; John 5:37; Acts 2:22). To believe that "Jesus is the Christ" is to believe that he is the Anointed, the Messiah of the prophets, the Saviour sent of God, that he was, in a word, what he claimed to be. This is to believe the gospel, by the faith of which alone men can be brought unto God. That Jesus is the Christ is the testimony of God, and the faith of this constitutes a Christian (1 Cor. 12:3; 1 John 5:1).
©Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary


Word Origin & History

Christ
O.E. crist, from L. Christus, from Gk. khristos "the anointed" (translation of Heb. mashiah, see messiah), from khriein "to rub, anoint," title given to Jesus of Nazareth. The L. term drove out O.E. hæland "healer" as the preferred descriptive term for Jesus. A title, treated as a proper name in O.E., but not regularly capitalized until 17c. Pronunciation with long -i- is result of Ir. missionary work in England, 7c.-8c. The Ch- form, regular since c.1500, was rare before. Christmas is O.E. Cristes mæsse and retains original vowel sound; Father Christmas first attested in a carol attributed to Richard Smart, Rector of Plymtree (Devon) from 1435-77. Christmas tree first attested 1835 in Amer.Eng., from Ger. Weihnachtsbaum. Christmas cards first designed 1843, popular by 1860s.



Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper

[jayjay283]

Ahhh i.e. i.c. the drunk jewish guy who led 500 people across the desert with no water and only 1/2 made it LOL