going to buy a rifle---advice?

[Riko]

Originally Posted by Unsullied_Spy

Gotta love gun threads, all the foreigners like to come in and act all self-righteous and pretend they know everything. It is a part of our history and culture and will continue to be as long as we value our freedom and safety, get over it!

woow, hold your horses cowboy :) I suppose you are refering to me with "all" foreigners?..(since I am the only non-American who posted in this thread)
But if you would read my post carefully, I was not judging, let alone be "self-righteous"
I actually was trying to understand it. I even thought it had to be something historical that is now part of the "American culture" if it is so deeply rooted.

So who am I to be self-righteous and tell a big nation like the USA what to do, right? :)

Originally Posted by Unsullied_Spy

If you are not prepared to use it and accept the consequences, don't use it for defense. There have been cases where the person was too afraid of taking a life and the burglar was able to take the weapon from the home owner and used it on them, if you aren't going to pull the trigger don't use it for defense.

ow, maybe a wiser option: having no fire arm in the house in the first place = no risk at all of anybody getting shot...

[shaunjohnson]

Originally Posted by Bondonutz

So you gonna scare away the burgler by making spooky sounds ?
Chambering a round does a much better job.

well...not quite, some prick broke into our house and we all woke up and chased the bastard off with brooms and cricket bats and crap

"GET OUTA MY HOUSE!" was a spooky enough noise for him


still...i dont like guns. guns kill people and that's bad (even if they are bad people, life in prison is a worse punishment but costs more)

[E-Revonut]

Originally Posted by shaunjohnson

i dont like guns. guns kill people and that's bad (even if they are bad people, life in prison is a worse punishment but costs more)

Guns don't kill people.....People kill people, please keep the facts straight. People may use guns to kill people and careless people may kill themselves with guns but guns don't kill people, people kill people!

[_paralyzed_]

Originally Posted by shaunjohnson

still...i dont like guns. guns kill people and that's bad (even if they are bad people, life in prison is a worse punishment but costs more)

there was an eigth scale buggy race where a turn marshall took a buggy to the temple and died. I don't know what you should do now, r/c kills people

[shaunjohnson]

Originally Posted by E-Revonut

Guns don't kill people.....People kill people, please keep the facts straight. People may use guns to kill people and careless people may kill themselves with guns but guns don't kill people, people kill people!

true true...humans are bloody stupid creatures at times my dad believes that we do many things backwards.

yes but accidents happen (like someone pulling the trigger)

but guns are DESIGNED from the ground up for killing.

it just seems silly to me...buying a gun because you are afraid of a criminal...with a gun. go figure.
it's always a matter of who has the bigger stick.

[Riko]

As a non-American, I find this whole thread kinda funny and it makes me curious at the same time :)

I am tired of asking myself the same question all over again "what is it with Americans and their guns" so I'll just assume it's a historical thing/tradition :)

Much like the Dutch do iceskating, the Belgians love cycling etc I guess.

ps: talking about Belgium, any of you guys own a FN-weapon of some sort? (one of our most infamous export products)

[JThiessen]

Originally Posted by Riko

As a non-American, I find this whole thread kinda funny and it makes me curious at the same time :)

ps: talking about Belgium, any of you guys own a FN-weapon of some sort? (one of our most infamous export products)

I have a Savage 30-06 that was built in Belgium. It was one of thier lines that had a little fancier engraving and action in it.

Guns are like any other product. There are many different types of enthusiasts - collectors, sportsmen, defense, guys that learned everything they know on a playstation, and constitution owners (because its my right!).
To those that buy a 9mm pistol to defend their home - I say you haven't done much shooting and testing of your abilities to shoot under extenuating circumstances, and what a bullet does in with different materials. Paper targets at the gun range are NOT real life. If you really want to defend your home, and minimize potential risk to your family and neighbors, you'd have a shotgun under your bed, not something that is going to go through a couple walls and still have the ability to kill your daughter in the next room. Yes, a shotgun blast will go through two pieces of sheet rock, but it will only injure a person on the other side, not kill them. Plus I'd prefer to have the foot wide kill shot area rather than a 1/4 inch zone.....have you ever had the shakes when shooting? Makes it really hard to aim. How many of you will be calm if you actually had someone standing in your hallway? Anyone that says they will is a liar, and has probably never had their guns sights on something living.
The thought of protecting yourself with a gun is idealistic for 99% of people - it will NOT go down like it does in your head.

[shaunjohnson]

we'd prolly be safer with the old muskets you can imagine someone trying to draw that on you.

my mate has a small calibre air powered rifle, wonder if you could get larger ones that could be used for deer and such?
i'd imagine they would be cheaper to run?

hell..who am i to stur up a hornets nest here...my bad!!
it's your law to be allowed own one over there (as far as i know) so it's prolly what riko said, culture/history.

[redshift]

Originally Posted by JThiessen

How many of you will be calm if you actually had someone standing in your hallway? Anyone that says they will is a liar, and has probably never had their guns sights on something living.
The thought of protecting yourself with a gun is idealistic for 99% of people - it will NOT go down like it does in your head.

Now THAT is a very mature POV. Really needed to be said, thanks JT.

I am a big believer in constitutional rights. However these people that talk about taking on a gov't run amok, for example, are not living in the now.

To readers abroad, the right to bear arms was in fact built in EXPLICITLY for the people to protect themselves from a tyrannical gov't. The problem is, when the constitution was drafted, the people and the 'law' had a nice even playing field. There was no advantage on either side, it was musket vs. musket.

That is not at all the case anymore, the people have peashooters (and I don't care if we're talking 50 cal), the military/police have microwave weapons that will melt your skin off, sonic weapons that can make you physically sick, and a huge number of other toys that make any firearm look silly.

If it's home defense you're concerned with, anything bigger than a .38 is just going to make more noise. And anything that requires both hands, rifle or shotty, will be cumbersome and leave you one less hand for throwing heavy objects while you're unloading rounds... and for agility in extreme situations.

I have no love for guns, they are simply tools. This is from someone who knew how to reload .223 rounds at age 9. By the way I'm not bragging, it's hardly what I wanted to be doing while everyone else was outside playing...

I really like what you said there JT, more people would realize how unprepared they were just by doing a simple drill, or break-in simulation. Families have fire drills, no reason to not have a drill for an intruder. You may have the tools, but do you have the actual preparedness?

Personally I have army experience mainly with the M16 Assault Rifle, cant beat that for all around effectiveness againsts humans or animals. Is it legal or readily available in the states?

[Riko]

it must be a historical thing than, gun use in the US

[rabosi]

Adding to what JT said, I would think that most people who have small children in their home keep their guns locked up making it more difficult to access in the middle of the night.
As for american's love of guns, I think it's because the country was founded in the gun era, where the gun was almost a necessity for survival. Even poor people owned guns. Most other cultures started before the gun era.

[Bondonutz]

I've ben reading this thread and trying to stay out but I can no longer keep my mouth shut.

The US is one of the best places to live for many reasons, and yes we have some serious problems but letting home owners own self defense firearms is NOT one of them. Unfortuately these laws make guns accessable on the street for felons gets their hands on also, a chance we take I guess ?

I'd much rather live in a country that allows folks to owns firearms than live in a country that does not and have to defend my homestead and family with a stick or throwing a sheep at a burgler ? Thats Horseshit, I'm gonna blast the the theiving asshole that dares to step foot in MY HOUSE. And inspite of a privious post mentioning some don't have the testicular fortitude to hold a gun on someone or take life. I've done it(He didn't die but is a vegetable), and I'll do it again gladly, My conscious is crystal clear.

[redshift]

Originally Posted by Bondonutz

I'd much rather live in a country that allows folks to owns firearms than live in a country that does not and have to defend my homestead and family with a stick or throwing a sheep at a burgler ?

Me too. And throwing a sheep isn't as bad as some countries do

I have to clarify some, I said I have no love for guns, not that I don't have or use them. I just don't kiss them goodnight like a lot of non-Americans might think. And Bondo I don't think JT's post was directed at anyone here, and neither was mine.

Having to fire shots is an unenviable position to be in, and would surely change most people's outlook on the matter. Shooting for sport is great, hunting, as well as defense. I think what JT was saying (and don't mean to put words in your mouth) was that there is a generation or two now that grew up in the 'thug' culture. And these are the ones that have a Glock just so they could be badass or gangsta... whatever. I also know there's very young kids who ARE taught properly. The point here is the fact that you own a gun does not immediately demand my respect for you. Again, not directed at anyone. This is an argument where no matter what 'side' you choose, you will be attacked by someone.

Maybe I'm one of the few 'open minded' Americans who can actually see both sides, and also see how it would look to an Aussie or a Belgian. It's not the guns, it is the attitude that comes with it for some people. Defense is fine, it's when people go on the offense with it, and I think we can all agree the crims are the offenders. I often wondered what the hell I would use instead of a gun, might be fun to tase the shit out of someone. But really there isn't much else...

I still find it amazing that coppers in Britain don't carry, every bit as baffling as we must seem to them. I don't think any less of other cultures for being non-gun societies. But I think I'd only wanna visit, not stay.

Bondo I've shot pretty much every Ruger there is, lots of match rifles, SKS's,
and I was pretty good for a short while, then just pretty much lost interest in it. I actually know the #1 guy in the nation currently, he can do 1000+ yds with open sights, Fcking unreal.

I ain't got it no more..

[Riko]

Originally Posted by Unsullied_Spy

That wasn't directed at you, but I never understood why people have to troll threads like this. It is part of our culture, it is how we became a nation and it is how we will stay who we are.

If you think that's a wiser option, you should open your eyes....

why?

okay, I understand that your country was formed under violent speration from the English rule. And that the US expaned to the west also with violence.
So I can understand that violence has been part of the american culture...
However, the US are not the only country that made itself independant by the means of violence, but they one of the most prominent gun-lovers in the world.

That's what I was trying to understand. The whole cultural-historical arugment is becoming less valid.

Anyhow, why do I have to open my eyes if I think that less guns is more safety?
Isn't that logic? Here in Europe the home defence with guns are a vast majority, so are we all blind and stupid here?...

Originally Posted by Bondonutz

I've ben reading this thread and trying to stay out but I can no longer keep my mouth shut.

The US is one of the best places to live for many reasons, and yes we have some serious problems but letting home owners own self defense firearms is NOT one of them. Unfortuately these laws make guns accessable on the street for felons gets their hands on also, a chance we take I guess ?

I'd much rather live in a country that allows folks to owns firearms than live in a country that does not and have to defend my homestead and family with a stick or throwing a sheep at a burgler ? Thats Horseshit, I'm gonna blast the the theiving asshole that dares to step foot in MY HOUSE. And inspite of a privious post mentioning some don't have the testicular fortitude to hold a gun on someone or take life. I've done it(He didn't die but is a vegetable), and I'll do it again gladly, My conscious is crystal clear.

So, you are in favor of private gun ownership, but more regulated and bound to strict (safety) rules (like in Europe) and against easy acces to get any gun for private use?