Any of you upset over your healthcare law?

[Bondonutz]

Makes no difference to me, I couldn't really afford any kind of real health care prior to now anyway ? I haven't had a solid job in over a year and the state doesn't give me shiz because I don't have kids and not a minority. Far as the state/Gov is concerned, I don't count. Illegal aliens get better health care than I do and I've paid taxes for the last 24+ yrs.

[pb4ugo]

Originally Posted by Bondonutz

Makes no difference to me, I couldn't really afford any kind of real health care prior to now anyway ? I haven't had a solid job in over a year and the state doesn't give me shiz because I don't have kids and not a minority. Far as the state/Gov is concerned, I don't count. Illegal aliens get better health care than I do and I've paid taxes for the last 24+ yrs.

Then how do you have a couple grand worth of RC equipment (some quite recent) listed in your sig?

[PBO]

I don't have a clear understanding of where US health care was & is being taken too

Can someone give me the abridged version so I can avoid hours of research?

[Finnster]

Originally Posted by PBO

I don't have a clear understanding of where US health care was & is being taken too

Can someone give me the abridged version so I can avoid hours of research?

Nearly all hospitals, doctor practices, and medical companies are privately owned (ie not owned by the govt.) Health Insurance, which is used to defer risk of high medical expenses (as does house, fire, auto, etc.,) in the US is primarily provided by your employer if you work for a large company, or member of a union, or work for the gov't.

People who work for small companies, small business owners, trade workers (ie plumbers, carpenters,) low wage workers or the unemployed have no health insurance provided to them. They have to buy insurance on the open market, as an individual with thier own wages.

The cronically ill, the elderly, as well as children of very low income families are provided coverage provided by the gov't. These programs are known as Medicaid, Medicare, and SChip respectively. These programs were put into place as these groups (minus the kids) tend to be very expensive to care for, and usually cannot purchase H Ins that is affordable, bc of their high medical costs and H. Ins companies cannot provide plans that would be profitable.

The major problems with the current system in a nutshell:

1.) Healthcare costs for US citizens are the most expensive per capita and as per % of GDP in the world. However, life expecancy is lower than many other industrialized countries, and lags behind the UK, France, Singapore, Japan, and more (see below.) Its questionable whether the much higher expenses has translated into a healthier society.




2.) Healthcare costs outpaces inflation and wage growth. HC inflation has been in the double digits for many years. The ranks of uninsured has grown dramtically since the economic meltdown and high unemployment.



3.) Millions are uninsured and have no coverage. People with no coverage either forgo care, pay entirely out of pocket, or just don't pay hosiptal bills entirely. Roughly 1/4 to 1/3rd of all personal banruptcies are due to medical expenses.

4.) As health insurance is provided by for-profit private industries, they have adopted many unpopular and controversial policies to limit layouts. These include: Lifetime benefit caps (usually $1M,) pre-existing condition exclusions, and a a practice known as recision. Policies can also be dropped at nearly anytime.

Pre-existing condition exclusions is a practice where a new insurance policy can deny coverage of any treatment towards a medical condition that was there before the policy was initiated.

Recisions are retro-active denials of coverage is the insurance company determines/decides that a medical condition arises from some other condition before the policy was initiated, or the policy holder is determined to have not fully disclosed all health history, and the Ins provider did not have all the facts when it wrote the policy.

-In effect, there are two different systems of HC coverage, depending on how you are employed. One, if someone is a member of a group plan (via a large employer) Pre-exisiting condition exclusions and recisions are generally not applied as the policy is written for the group as a whole.
Two, if a person carries individual coverage, Pre-E Excl generally apply, and recisons can occur. They are also more subject to price volitility and coverage droppage, as they do not have the protections of the group.

The worst highlights of the system is where an individ policy holder becomes sick, say a heart attack. The initial treatment will usually be covered, but the patient is now high risk. They can then be dropped by their Ins Co. They have to buy more insurance to have continued coverage, but any new policy is likely to have Pre-E excl's in place, that will limit coverage of heart related med problems. Since they are also now high risk, premium costs soar. Very high risk patients may not be able to find any insurance provider, and thus pays 100% of bills of a very expensive system. This is how most med bankruptcies occur. Basically you pay or you die.

There have been instances where the insurance companies run algorthyms that analyze medical patterns of a policy holder, to determine pro-actively if they may become high risk and high cost. Say, scan for prescriptions for drugs that might be used by HIV infected patients, or by people likely to be diabetic. They are then summarily dropped before high med bills roll in.

All in all, an Ins Co's priority is to maximize profits and return shareholder value. This can lead to certain abuses of coverage.
Eventually, policy holders stay in the private insurance system when they are young and healthy, paying low-risk/high-profit premiums. By the time they are elderly, most people move to Medicare, as they are the highest risk and unlikely to be affordibly covered under private ins (and thus are covered by gov't at great expense.)
Some retirees qualify for Health Plan benefits through their employer if they qualify (and are not laid off first ;) and don't have to be covered/paid.) Generally, HC coverage ends when employment ends, unless retired. Unemployed people get F'd generally.

[Finnster]

Originally Posted by PBO

I don't have a clear understanding of where US health care was & is being taken too

Can someone give me the abridged version so I can avoid hours of research?

The new bill does several things in attempt to solve the problems below, however its fair to say the bill prioritizes increased coverage rather than decreasing costs. Both probably will occur, but its debatable how much and by when. No one actually knows for sure, and anyone who says otherwise is FOS.

Pre-existing exclusions are banned, as is recision and lifetime caps. However, this obviously creates a huge new cost for ins companies if they have to actually pay for people who get sick.

So, the Bill mandates that taxpayers purchase or recieve some sort of HC Ins from a private company. The idea is to bring more people into the pool, and defer the risk across a larger pool, so premiums will not have to rise to cover the new costs. Many uninsured are low risk young people with little medical expenses.

To help some low income people afford the insurance, the govt will provide needs based subsidies to buy the ins. There are tax fines of 2% of income if no policy is held. Very poor are just put into medicaid.

To pay for the subsidies, the Bill cuts some Federal programs, as well as raise taxes on some medical industries, as well some wealthy people. Some very high cost employer provided health plans are taxed (they are currently tax exempt.)
Other things in the bill as well, but not worth mentioning here.

Much of these provisions will roll-out over time, with most provisions in effect by 2014.


Ironically, the system that was signed into law was modelled after conservative Republican plans that were offered in the 90's as an alternative to Clinton's health reform plan, and a plan enacted by a Republican governor in the state of Massachusetts in the Naughties.

Conservatives generally oppose the plan enacted by Obama and the Democrats, typically based on the mandated insurance requirement.

Many liberal Democrats were upset with (but in the end voted for) the plan, and favored direct buy-ins to the govt run health programs of Medicare, or some combination of a nationalized health service that cut out the Insurance Company middlemen entirely.

In the end, no one got what they really wanted, but the plan was mostly forced by strict Republican opposition, and a handful of centrist Democratic Senators who were against expansion of govt into the Health Insurance sector. Much of the language, politics and dispersions on radio and opinion news has been vitrolic and anger filled.

However, most polls show a slight majority in favor of the new legislation, which trending towards increased support of the reforms.

You can make your own judgements of the quality of our system and reforms.

Beyond that, I don't really want to get involved in this thread as the whole issue has been a flamefest in this country for over a year, and this is destined to become one of those threads that we were asked not to start up again by Mike.
Calling each other Communists, Baby Killers, House Negroes, Liars, Sell Outs, Elitists, etc gets tiresome after a year and there is no likely way the law is going to change anytime soon.

[Bondonutz]

Originally Posted by pb4ugo

Then how do you have a couple grand worth of RC equipment (some quite recent) listed in your sig?

Whats it to you anyway ?
Regardless where my money comes from, it's a job that's required to have health insurance and it be somewhat affordable.

[georgec]

I come from a long line of southern yellow dog democrats and was the first to break from that tradition after the Jimmy Carter debacle. Most here are too young to remember that era, but that was the time of the first gas lines and double digit inflation and the same double digit unemployment and interest rates. We are once again heading in that same direction with the same ideology that almost brought our country to its knees back then. You cannot tax a city, county, state nor this country in to prosperity!

[Bondonutz]

Originally Posted by georgec

I come from a long line of southern yellow dog democrats and was the first to break from that tradition after the Jimmy Carter debacle. Most here are too young to remember that era, but that was the time of the first gas lines and double digit inflation and the same double digit unemployment and interest rates. We are once again heading in that same direction with the same ideology that almost brought our country to its knees back then. You cannot tax a city, county, state nor this country in to prosperity!

I was very young during that era and don't remember much of it well, but I do remember my parents grief over the happenings and waiting in line for fuel w/Mom for hours for 10gls. No fill ups were allowed.

[pb4ugo]

Originally Posted by Bondonutz

Whats it to you anyway ?
Regardless where my money comes from, it's a job that's required to have health insurance and it be somewhat affordable.

I apologize for coming across as harsh. It is a serious question though.

I've been in this hobby for 24 years--and loved every minute of it. Due to the times, however, I'm about to be selling all my stuff so I can pay for the basics like my healthcare. If you know something I don't as far as being able to stay in this hobby while broke, I'd love to hear it.

[Bondonutz]

Originally Posted by pb4ugo

I apologize for coming across as harsh. It is a serious question though.

I've been in this hobby for 24 years--and loved every minute of it. Due to the times, however, I'm about to be selling all my stuff so I can pay for the basics like my healthcare. If you know something I don't as far as being able to stay in this hobby while broke, I'd love to hear it.

The question did sound a little like you were calling me out, And yes a was a bit defensive. I apologize as well.

I have no advice to give, everyones situation is different. My wife and I have no debt so we pretty much get by on her Paycheck and my earnings from Ebay. Once I'm able, I look forward to working FT again and hopefully get Insurance myself.
I sincerely wish and hope your situation gets better soon and you get the help you need.

[zeropointbug]

Wow, I did not expect such a response about this.

"This is a big f*****g deal" Yup, the arrogance of these tyrants in the White House is sickening.

I think we are in for some interesting times in 2010, whether good or bad, violent or otherwise. I can't see the American people taking it up the @$$ for much longer from these criminals, somethings gotta give.

[ClodMaxx]

Originally Posted by pb4ugo

Then how do you have a couple grand worth of RC equipment (some quite recent) listed in your sig?

i think we're all guilty of going a bit beyond our budgets for r/c

[crazyjr]

Originally Posted by Bondonutz

Makes no difference to me, I couldn't really afford any kind of real health care prior to now anyway ? I haven't had a solid job in over a year and the state doesn't give me shiz because I don't have kids and not a minority. Far as the state/Gov is concerned, I don't count. Illegal aliens get better health care than I do and I've paid taxes for the last 24+ yrs.

I am in a similar boat to yours, I am white, single, no kids and work a low income job. I live with my sis and am trying to get on my feet, I can't afford health insurance. If i meet the minimum, I'll be either forced to buy, be fined or possibly jailed if no compliance. If i am below the minimum, My insurance will be provided by my sis, her husband and everyone else that is forced to buy. I stand to gain from this, and yet i see it is so wrong. It is Marxist, Socialistic and even Communist to force anyone into something they don't want to do or need to do

[glassdoctor]

What I can't believe, is that this crap happens, even though we have been looking at what a disaster it has been (national health care) in Canada. We've heard the horror stories.... lack of doctors, waiting months for needed care, etc. That's why so many Canadians come here for medical care!

While we are at it, why not copy the models of the Mexican military and North Korean foreign policy?

[glassdoctor]

It's so backwards, that the initial bill actually gave preference to illegal aliens over american citizens. I think that got "fixed", but it tells you how the democrats think.