60C really?

[brushlessboy16]

Holy crap guys.. first off even though i have no preference with maxamps- i have not ever owned a pack, no flaming here. guys you have to give Austin the benefit of the doubt, its a real standup act to come to rc-monster and argue his point.

I applaud you Austin!


Anyways.. I run an e-erevo, alongside 2 other fellows that run e revos, they keep up just fine but i have seen a set of packs puff and get all mushy in a truck. dont know if it was setup or not. Just an observation

As for testing and ratings. I would like to the following

Constant C- The C rating at which the battery holds 3.5v under load...

what ever C discharge amperage in which the batter can hold a minimum voltage of 3.5v per cell at a set starting temerature.

Burst C- Should be whatever C rating the battery can sustain for 10 seconds without the battery puffing or increasing temperature by a set temp (lets say 15 degrees)


Would be something that can be tested and be standard and it is something that most battery manufacturers are capable of doing.


time to start a petition...

[rawfuls]

I agree, I was going to stay out of this thread, but wanted to also give Austin some credit for even coming on here, to argue for his point, though I have not bought any MA packs, due to the cost, and with this great economic, or money downfall, will have to wait a long while before I get the chance to try these out.

[brushlessboy16]

Post your feelings on standardized testing here:
http://rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22596

[rootar]

this was the comparison i liked,

Maxamps 5250 5S 18.5V = $300
Hyperion g3 5s 5000 18.5v= $160

why buy one overpriced pack with a warranty that you know will fail when you can buy to excellent packs and they wont crap out on you.

[zeropointbug]

Electricdave, "as long as it does it's job well, and does so safely."

What is that supposed to mean? I notice that you use Enerland packs, so aren't you buying higher quality packs for more money? No doubt they will do the job good and do so safely, an Enerland pack has been the most reliable pack up until now.

You say that not everyone drives a BMW, well, traditionally MA packs are a Ford Taurus with a BMW price tag (priced the same as the high end packs), and they were crap, didn't perform, and would have one of the highest failure rates in the market (aside for some ebay packs maybe)... and now with these latest packs, $250!!! Where is the data showing it's worth 50% more than a Hyperion G3 pack, which I know to be of excellent quality. MA has traditionally not MATCHED their packs, which is a big no no, and they still don't say they match them yet.

Who knows maybe MA packs now are the best on the market, but from what I have seen, there is no reason to believe so. They aren't providing us with any data or objective evidence to substantiate their claims that "It will maintain higher voltage under load than any other lipo battery pack on the market." and "Highest performance in the industry".

Austin says Maxamps has the least the prove of all battery companies, well, around here anyways, they have the most to prove... and they make statements like best battery on market because they have nothing to lose.

[BrianG]

Originally Posted by rawfuls

I agree, I was going to stay out of this thread, but wanted to also give Austin some credit for even coming on here, to argue for his point, though I have not bought any MA packs, due to the cost, and with this great economic, or money downfall, will have to wait a long while before I get the chance to try these out.

I too wish to give Austin credit. It can't be easy to come here knowing full well what kind of abuse he will get.

Threads like this can easily get out of hand with flames (some posts are already coming very close), but as long as we stick to constructive posts, the thread will stay open as far as I'm concerned. Debating points is acceptable, saying "MA sucks" (or similar) is not.

Thanks for all of your input. Frankly it would not be fair for me to pick and choose from your concerns, questions, and negative opinions.

In general, the bigger you become as a company, the bigger the target is on your back. I use to really take this stuff personally but have grown beyond that. I realize that some of your posts are valid concerns but most are just someone on the other end of the computer with no recourse for lying about or bashing on our company. In fact, on several occasions I have found out that the "customer" who was bashing on us in a forum was actually a competitor trying to tear us down.

Most of the guys are stating their opinions as facts. Kinda like us stating that our packs are the best, its all an opinion. We can use our opinion as marketing and I really do believe that we offer the best packs on the market.

Brian- Stating that our packs are "crap", "don't perform", have the "highest failure rates" is basically saying that "MaxAmps sucks." Lets call a spade a spade and at least admit that what is happening in this thread is "bashing".

I have not seen one single person who is posting here who can actually give me a specific example of a problem that they have had with our pack quality, customer service, or company. If I missed one, feel free to call me personally about your specific experience and I will do whatever it takes to make it right.

One final note-

It is really hard to find customers who have had a bad experience with a company who is just starting up or with a brand new product on the market. Even if the failure rate is 50%, if you have not sold any of them, then you would not be able to find any failed packs or upset customers.

I see all of the "lipo manufacturer of the week" threads. Then a few people actually use the packs and the real story starts to come out a few months later. This is not our first rodeo, we have been around for much longer than most of the companies that you are all referring to.

I have tested lots of cells that look great in the first 15-30 cycles and then become worthless. Finding a cell with a balance of voltage under load and cycle life is much harder than you think. Some companies will sell a bunch of packs and then be out of business around the time you need warranty work.

I know that it is fun for some guys to bash on the "man". Just remember that "the man" is a real person and try to treat them the same way that you would want to be treated when you are "the man".

If any of you have actual constructive criticism regarding our company, I would love to hear from you personally. Our toll free number is 888-654-4450. I will personally take your call, hear you out, and address your concerns. People seem much nicer over the phone than they do behind the shield of a keyboard and a computer.

It is also very easy for a guy who can not afford our packs to bash them. Rather than just admitting that he can't afford the packs, he tells everyone that his cheap packs are just as good.

When I was in middle school my mom bought me the cheap K Mart "Spot Built" basketball shoes since that is all she could afford. Instead of telling everyone that, I told everyone that my shoes where imported from France and where "French Nikes". The problem was that I had to explain why they left white streaks on the gym floor while the USA Nike shoes did not:)

Best Regards,

Austin Else
CEO MaxAmps.com

[Bondonutz]

I can afford MA packs and still own 2, I will never buy another because I can get the same qaulity or exceed it in my Zippy/Rhino packs. I have 4s and 5s Zippys that already have well over 100 cycles and they still balance perfectly or within 1-2 10ths and at a
FRACTION OF THE COST
I club race and bash heavily w/Zippys and have yet to be let down like I have with a couple of the MA packs I had that puffed or wouldn't balance Running in the exact same set up?
All stats and testing aside I've ben let down buy MA and haven't with the Zips. So go figure who's getting my $$, especially if I can buy twice the batterys for the same price.

[sikeston34m]

Very Simple, Direct Question.

Can we see a discharge graph for a Maxamps 60C pack?

[BrianG]

Originally Posted by austinelse

...Brian- Stating that our packs are "crap", "don't perform", have the "highest failure rates" is basically saying that "MaxAmps sucks." Lets call a spade a spade and at least admit that what is happening in this thread is "bashing".

I have not seen one single person who is posting here who can actually give me a specific example of a problem that they have had with our pack quality, customer service, or company. If I missed one, feel free to call me personally about your specific experience and I will do whatever it takes to make it right.
...

Are you referring to me? I don't believe I said MA packs are "crap", what I have said is that there is excessive voltage drop at much lower than the rated C rate. And I have commented about construction.

One example? How about three:

1: 2s1p 5Ah pack: Even in a light vehicle (~6lbs) geared for ~40mph, the pack got too hot for my liking (130*F at the end of the run) and I feared their life life would be shortened. This is from day 1. At the time, I did not have an accurate way to measure real current draw, but my runtime was right around 35 minutes. That's at 8.6A average current. Pretty high temp for the gentle use IMO. Since then, I've reconfigured two of those 2s packs into a single 4s pack for use in a low kv motor setup (Trx Slash) on 4s to reduce current and keep heat to a minimum.


2: And while on the topic of that 4s 5Ah pack, let's talk performance. Since I reconfigured the pack, I acquired an Eagletree logger and have an actual graph that shows the highest burst value of 61A (which is 12.2C) while the pack voltage fell to 12.48v (3.12v/cell). And here is the graph if you like:




3: I have some 2s2p 8Ah packs. They worked ok in a Hyper8 buggy configured as 4s (saddle packs) with a Neu 1512/2d. Since then I redid the setup and wanted a single 4s2p pack, so I proceeded to take apart the pack to reconfigure it. The tabs used were substantially thinner than any other pack I have taken apart. I was able to seperate the tabs of the "2p" cell pairs by hand, and without trying hard at all. That's not a solid solder job by anyone's standards. And, after bending the tab once, they started to tear. I ended up throwing that pack out. I still have the other 2s2p 8Ah pack, but I won't touch it.


Is that detailed enough?

[zeropointbug]

Thanks for posting Austin, and btw, "Brian- Stating that our packs are "crap", "don't perform", have the "highest failure rates" is basically saying that "MaxAmps sucks." Lets call a spade a spade and at least admit that what is happening in this thread is "bashing"." That was me, not Brian who said that... I may have sounded like I was bashing, but that was not my intention, so I'm sorry you felt that way.

Also, if you want to prove your companies product here, would you be willing to donate one of your packs for testing? Is this not the simplest way to go about doing it, the cheapest way? I know that none here will buy one of those packs right now, until we have seen some absolute beyond the shadow of a doubt data we can observe and make a decision based on that. Because, I will admit, the remarks that have been made about MA have been a bit excessive, or slightly exaggerated to make a point on this thread, and it has got us nowhere fast.

So what do you say Austin, willing to donate a tester pack?

Like I said earlier. If you have specific concerns, feel free to call me personally.

Posting a graph of a pack that we have not offered for sale for at least a year(5000mah 20C) is not really addressing the current question of our new method of rating the current packs.

I am having a flashback of why I stopped trying to have constructive conversation here on RCM.

Thanks for the feedback.

Best Regards,

Austin

[redshift]

Originally Posted by austinelse

Frankly it would not be fair for me to pick and choose from your concerns, questions, and negative opinions.

I really was trying to give the benefit of the doubt, but franklysir, that is an absolute cop-out.

Pick one and address it, not that difficult.

Good day.

[BrianG]

Originally Posted by austinelse

Like I said earlier. If you have specific concerns, feel free to call me personally.

Posting a graph of a pack that we have not offered for sale for at least a year(5000mah 20C) is not really addressing the current question of our new method of rating the current packs.

I am having a flashback of why I stopped trying to have constructive conversation here on RCM.

Thanks for the feedback.

Best Regards,

Austin

No, of course it's not neccessarily representative of current generation packs, but you asked for examples. And it illustrates why some are hesitant based on prior experience. And, it would be tough to post a graph of cells using the new method since they are fairly new.

And what is not constructive? Very few people are actually trashing your product. Most are posting real world experiences. This attitude doesn't come from nowhere.

Look, I was willing to keep it civil, but when you put words in my mouth, be prepared for the response.

If you wish to discuss this 1:1, PM me.

[brushlessboy16]

He austin Today, How do you measure and rate your packs. with what rating systems etc. testing enviornment.

I would also like to see a graph of the 60c cells