Castle HV Hydra, but where is the car version!!!!

[What's_nitro?]

Originally Posted by johnrobholmes

How many people do you know that would buy an HV car controller and use it? How many people actually have 12s setups or even the motor to use it? How about a vehicle big enough? The only production vehicle is the 5b.


His point is that there might be 100 people tops that would actually use it to its potential right now. That isn't enough to develop a new controller. If I made ESCs I wouldn't spend the time on a HV car controller yet, the market isn't there.

Well they wouldn't need to develop a new controller. Just put some decent heatsinks on the one they have and add braking capability to the firmware and such. That's pretty much it. In the event they didn't sell loads of them they could just convert them back into boat controllers. I see no reason not to make a car version.

[Dagger Thrasher]

It basically boils down to what people are going to buy. 95% of brushless MT users are never going to use over 6S LiPo! Heck, most people can't afford to go over 6S as it gets very expensive. Castle aren't going to develop an ESC that they're going to lose money on, and I think Joe was perfectly right in what he said. To even release a car version of the Hydra HV is going to be very expensive (time to reprogram, packaging, and hardware alterations that need to be made etc). Like Johnrobholmes said, the market just isn't there. For most users, 6S LiPo setups offer excellent performance and efficiency...and the MMM looks to be a stonking controller. If the market arises, then I'm sure they'll build an MMM HV...but it isn't there. It makes perfect sense...and at this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if Castle stopped visiting and posting on this forum.
All they've gotten lately is complaint after complaint. Though they deserve some of it for the MMM wait, they're now getting flak for not building a HV car controller right away? Come on. The MMM should be an awesome controller for a great price which will probably handle 7S easily anyway, so let's be grateful.


Sorry for the rant, I've had a bit of a bad day...but that's just my 2 pence.

[lutach]

I almost forgot. I also ran my Kontronik 3SL 40-14-32 with 2 36V A123 packs in parallel in my BPP truggy. It ran awesome and being an old ESC it only blew the small capacitor. I will fix that controller and maybe add some more caps and a heat sink (Not really needed).

[What's_nitro?]

I was just trying to say that it would be easy for them to convert it to a car version, and easy to roll it back to boat version if it didn't sell well enough. Even if they only sold 100 of them, that's 100 they wouldn't have sold if they didn't make the conversions.

Like one of those "Risk-Free" trials that you see on TV at 3:00 AM.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by Dagger Thrasher

It basically boils down to what people are going to buy. 95% of brushless MT users are never going to use over 6S LiPo! Heck, most people can't afford to go over 6S as it gets very expensive. Castle aren't going to develop an ESC that they're going to lose money on, and I think Joe was perfectly right in what he said. To even release a car version of the Hydra HV is going to be very expensive (time to reprogram, packaging, and hardware alterations that need to be made etc). Like Johnrobholmes said, the market just isn't there. For most users, 6S LiPo setups offer excellent performance and efficiency...and the MMM looks to be a stonking controller. If the market arises, then I'm sure they'll build an MMM HV...but it isn't there. It makes perfect sense...and at this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if Castle stopped visiting and posting on this forum.
All they've gotten lately is complaint after complaint. Though they deserve some of it for the MMM wait, they're now getting flak for not building a HV car controller right away? Come on. The MMM should be an awesome controller for a great price which will probably handle 7S easily anyway, so let's be grateful.


Sorry for the rant, I've had a bit of a bad day...but that's just my 2 pence.

Patrick Castillo said in rcgroups he would release 2 versions of the MMM. One would go up to 6S and the other 12S. Most companies (Acutally all) that offer HV controllers for car use are based in Europe. If a US company made such controller, then it would change everything. A few people buy a HV controller and only use 6S, but they know when they want to go with higher voltage, the controller is there.

[Finnster]

Originally Posted by nl12

Not many people run 10s+ because there is no ideal equipment to support it, like low kv 1515 motors, a proper controler, a truck that can easily hold 10s-15s lipo, also charging a 10-15s pack in a short time would require more charging equipment than most people have. I would like to run HV again but I will probably stick to 5s-6s unless there is a HV car controler built here in the USA so I can get fast service if it blows.

Kinda...

Above 10s is gets hard, but I already had a TP 1010C charger, which can go upto 10S. The hyperion 1210 w/ the LBA10 balancers is also capable, and many people have these as well.

w/ the TP you have to get the more expensive 210v balancer instead of the 205 (for 5S.) If you get the hyperion, get the 2 LBA balancer combo. BPP has it for $220 shipped IIRC. The astro 109 can do 8S too I think.

W/ Hv you use lower MAh batts, so amp rate is lower. The 1010C can do 5S @10A or 10S@ 5A. Its the same. If you had a 10S 2100 or 3200 setup, that's still a 2.4C or 1.5C rate anyway.

I think above 10S is the point of dimishing returns in car apps anyway. The 1515s go down to 1100 kv like I have, tho I could have easily ran the 3D (1360 kv) on my setup and been fine. The 2Y is rated for upto 50V and 3D to 45V.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by What's_nitro?

I was just trying to say that it would be easy for them to convert it to a car version, and easy to roll it back to boat version if it didn't sell well enough. Even if they only sold 100 of them, that's 100 they wouldn't have sold if they didn't make the conversions.

One thing they could've done is program the controller with a boat and car mode. MGM did it with their car/boat controller. Why can't Castle do the same? Make a nice heat sink with water cooling and options to mount fans as well. Note if Castle does this they actually stole my idea LOL.

[What's_nitro?]

That's just what I said at the top of the page! Give it car firmware and some heatsinks and you're done!

[Dagger Thrasher]

Patrick Castillo said in rcgroups he would release 2 versions of the MMM. One would go up to 6S and the other 12S. Most companies (Acutally all) that offer HV controllers for car use are based in Europe. If a US company made such controller, then it would change everything. A few people buy a HV controller and only use 6S, but they know when they want to go with higher voltage, the controller is there.

He only said that a 12S controller was a possibility, and unlikely unless they got a lot of demand. Plus, he said that if they did make one, it'd come after the MMM. I agree what you mean about voltage headroom, but right now, like I say, most people have no need for anything higher than 6S. It'd be great if they did build one, but at the moment there's no real demand for it. I bet it'll come in time. I'm not against it, but I just don't think Castle should get grilled.

[johnrobholmes]

Castle isn't satisfied with a boat controller rebadged as a car controller with a heat sink- they would have already done this if it would work. The startup loads are different, the startup routine is different. A 100 amp boat controller won't be very powerful compared to a 100 amp car specific controller. The burst requirements are vastly different.

[nl12]

That would work but it would be less than ideal, it seems Castle wants to get their controlers to a level above MGM, Quark and others. At least that would be a good reason for the MMM taking longer than expected.

[Finnster]

I think really that CC's opinion of the E-car market is that its mostly n00bs. This may actually be about right tho. The plane, heli and HP boat market tends to attract more demanding and exp users who can afford the investment in lipos/chargers/good motors etc, and the skill to use them.

Handling 40V batteries is not for the careless or inexperienced, and unfortunately from what I've seen, a good # of Emaxx users fall into this catagory. The HV demand will come up w/ the acceptance of BL into the racing circles. When hi-power elect 'uggy racing becomes less "nitchy" and more pro, you will see more a need for these controllers.

All of the other ESCs have multiple software modes. Not much is needed to convert them from plane to heli to car to boat other than software and HS. There really should be a reason the Hydras or such couldn't be programmed for car use and just swap the HS. My MGM has both car and boat modes I can freely switch between and it just alters the programming profile.

[johnrobholmes]

I didn't want to mention the HV and user, but it would be a concern for me. Around 50 volts is when you can short a circuit by just touching it. With sweaty hands the voltage drops even lower. I certainly wouldn't feel safe selling a 5000w 50 volt controller to a kid, they would probably hurt somebody with the battery or vehicle.

[Dagger Thrasher]

That's a very good point...if it was simply a case of reprogramming the Hydra and whacking on a heatsink, Castle would have already done it IMO...or be in the process of doing so. It's probably nowhere near that simple. The MGM controllers are most likely designed around handling what a car dishes out primarily, and then has alternate software for boats. The Hydra controllers are primarily boat controllers, and I'll bet cars put a bigger strain on ESCs than boats do.
As for voltage... around 40V and above can kill a person if they directly contact it. So it's never going to be a setup that a lot of people use...

[lutach]

Look at the Kontronik. They don't have a heat sink. One of mine does and the rest doesn't. Joe said they will have a 60, 120, 180 and 240A versions. This would be fine for a car. My point is they could have gotten a hold of another market by simply adding a car mode to the controller. The only Kontroniks I know that is over 100A is the Power Jazz and those FIA controllers and they don't have a car mode. All the rest does and they work fine. I have a 30A Kontronik that I tried in my touring car a few years back and it ran perfect. If a HV system is set up perfect, it doesn't see spike of 120A+ anyways. If Castle adds a car mode it wouldn't hurt at all. They could benefit from it with sales to us car guys. BTW MGM's 9044 controller can be programmed with a car mode. This information was sent to me from Ing. Grisa Dvorsky. That is a 90A originally for Airplane that can handle 15S lipos. They have the Z series and the EXPERT + available.