MMM availibility date dropped! - Page 14 - RC-Monster Forums

cart213 · 02.21.2008, 07:01 PM

Plus, a smooth can will be cheaper to produce and will follow the standard set by their 1/18 and 1/10 motors. I'll be suprised if it's a finned can.

lutach · 02.21.2008, 09:04 PM

It would just been better initially to make the ESC. I would've thought they completely tested the ESC, but just throwing them in 1/8 buggy and E-Maxx is not convincing me yet. I will wait until everyone is completely happy and used it with other motors (Larger Neu, Lehner, Plettenberg and Mega). I understand everyone is happy and we should not be bugging Joe, but it didn't make much sense of waiting for a motor to sell it as a combo. With that out of the way, the controller should've been out much sooner.

glassdoctor · 02.21.2008, 09:08 PM

Well... can't comment on a source, lol... and it's POSSIBLE they can get it done during March. But I'm told they are waiting not only on motors to show up, but also on the power boards for the ESC to be done so they can start the assembly line.

Mid April is IMO a more accurate date, and I'd rather be surprised with an "early" release than sit around waiting as March comes and goes.

Sorry LOL

lincpimp · 02.21.2008, 10:46 PM

I do not have any experience with a true Neu motor, but from what I can understand the 1512 is a powerful motor, more-so than a xl feigao. So a 1515 must be quite impressive.

So, an 1/8 buggy with a 1515 2200kv motor on 6s lipo would be quite impressive, and I am sure that it would not run hot. A new emaxx with the same combo would also be very impressive.

I am personally looking forward to the system, and the 1515 motor. I have a few pairs of 2200 - 2500mah 5s lipos, so that will be my battery of choice. Plus my most of my chargers are 5s max! And I am sick of buying lipos!

MTBikerTim · 02.21.2008, 11:09 PM

I will get this combo for my savage and run it on 6s. Do you think it will get hot

. Should be quick though.

glassdoctor · 02.22.2008, 01:40 AM

The 1515 is a great motor and it works just fine in a buggy. But the 1512 also works fine and it's smaller lighter and cheaper.

IF the Castle motor is the equal of the Neu then it will be a bargain and I will get one even though it's not ideal.

ldzielak · 02.22.2008, 03:34 AM

Joe,

Has your 2200KV motor been tested with 6s? Will it survive full RPM from a 6s lipo? I'm building a 8ight-t, I will be using your MMM ESC and had planed on the 1550KV motor and small 10-11T pinion to match to my 46T spur gear (Conversion is on order from RCProductDesigns)

I'm thinking 2200KV is way too much for 6s (I have a TP6s5000 pack I plan on using.)

Would you recomend I try your motor or just order a NEU 1515 1.5Y?

Thanks,

Lee

MTBikerTim · 02.22.2008, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldzielak

Joe,

Has your 2200KV motor been tested with 6s? Will it survive full RPM from a 6s lipo? I'm building a 8ight-t, I will be using your MMM ESC and had planed on the 1550KV motor and small 10-11T pinion to match to my 46T spur gear (Conversion is on order from RCProductDesigns)

I'm thinking 2200KV is way too much for 6s (I have a TP6s5000 pack I plan on using.)

Would you recomend I try your motor or just order a NEU 1515 1.5Y?

Thanks,

Lee

I am fairly sure he has stated before in this thread that the 2200 has been tested on 6s. The question is under how much load.

Dagger Thrasher · 02.22.2008, 07:02 AM

Yep, it's been tested with 6S in an E-Maxx as far as I know. This is what Patrick said a while back:

"Monster Max Motor:

Steve Neu design
1515/1Y (first motor -- others available soon afterwards)
2200Kv
3HP continuous output at 6S Lipo (2400 watts input with cooling)
6HP+ output peak (4800+ watts input)
Continuous operation at up to 125C (external) / 150C (internal) without damage
5mm shaft

Our drop-in for the Emaxx hits 60mph+ on 6S Lipo.

Measured temps after abuse run (full throttle to about 30mph, full brake to about 5mph, repeated for full run on 4800mah Lipos at about 80 degrees ambient)
ESC: 128 F
Motor: 172 F"

Obviously they're not doing the other motor winds now...but that seems like a fairly good test to me. :-)

dirt101 · 02.22.2008, 08:10 AM

im in the same boat. I think 2200k/v with 5s is just going to be faster than I want. I used to run 1668k/v(10xl) and it was about all I could handle. but Im still going to get it. Im just going to gear down as much as I can without buying another pinion.

17/40 with close ratio 2nd(locked)
used to run 17/36 wide with both gears.

jhautz · 02.22.2008, 08:54 AM

heat is one problem, but if that doesnt get you the reduced run time of the high reving motor will. Just try and finish a long main on the high rpm motor.

Guys... If its not available there are other motors out there. Yes I know nobody wants to drop the cash on a Neu if theMMM motor will work, but if the controler wokrks as advertized we are still way ahead. I'm sure the lower kv motors will eventally come.

BrianG · 01:26 PM

IMO, I don't know what the fuss is all about. Yeah, 2200kv is a bit high for 6s, but if you don't want to go that fast, just gear down. For a given battery voltage and vehicle speed (mechanical load) a higher kv motor geared down will draw just as much current as a lower kv motor geared up, and runtime will be about the same. Any efficiency gained by using a low kv motor is lost by gearing high to compensate for lower speeds. Again, this is for a given voltage and vehicle speed.

Plus, spinning a motor a little faster and gearing down is better for the ESC because it has enough rpms at low speed to get adequate back-EMF pulses. A too-low kv motor geared high will spin too slow at low vehicle speeds and may produce cogging. Of course, this theory holds true for better motors like LMTs and Neus (which the CC motors are based off of) - you wouldn't treat Feigaos the same way because of their lower rpm sweet spot.

If geared down and it's still too fast, set the throttle EPA down a tad. Once you get bored with that speed, increase it back up to 100% and you'll be happy again....until max speed becomes boring.

jhautz · 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianG

IMO, I don't know what the fuss is all about. Yeah, 2200kv is a bit high for 6s, but if you don't want to go that fast, just gear down. For a given battery voltage and vehicle speed (mechanical load) a higher kv motor geared down will draw just as much current as a lower kv motor geared up, and runtime will be about the same. Any efficiency gained by using a low kv motor is lost by gearing high to compensate for lower speeds. Again, this is for a given voltage and vehicle speed.

Plus, spinning a motor a little faster and gearing down is better for the ESC because it has enough rpms at low speed to get adequate back-EMF pulses. A too-low kv motor geared high will spin too slow at low vehicle speeds and may produce cogging. Of course, this theory holds true for better motors like LMTs and Neus (which the CC motors are based off of) - you wouldn't treat Feigaos the same way because of their lower rpm sweet spot.

If geared down and it's still too fast, set the throttle EPA down a tad. Once you get bored with that speed, increase it back up to 100% and you'll be happy again....until max speed becomes boring.

Yes you can make anything "work". But the point is that a 2200kv motor on 6s is FAR from optimal. I personally wouldn't even consider running the motor at almost 50K rpm on a consistent basis. I don't care how great the motor is. That's just asking for problems.

I don't have any data to offer here, but I sure would be interested to see how spinning a 2200kv motor on 6s at ~50K rpm is just as efficient as spinning a 1500kv motor at ~35K rpm. Even with the gearing compensated to drive the vehicle at the same overall speed theoretically. Why wouldn't we all just run all of our motors at 50K rpm then? It creates heat generated by the increased inefficiency. Not to mention really narrowing the gearing window you have to work with. With a high quality motor spinning at a reasonable rpm on the correct voltage the gearing options up and down from the "optimal" setup is quite large. Even with the high end motors once you start taking one of the parameters out side of the optimal range (in this case the rpm) you start to limit your flexibility on the other setup parameters.

I see that they test report that someone gave onthe temps after a hard beating run on 6s and they were still within limits, but now take that gearing and go up or down a coulple teeth. I gaurantee you dont get temps still in spec. If you had a properly matched battery and motor you will gain alot of flexability in your setup.

Bottom line... can you make it work? Yes. Would it be better to have a properly specified motor for the voltage you want to run? Yes. Would I run the 2200kv motor on 6s as an everyday set up. No. Would I spend my money on a system that I know from the get go isnt "right"? NO. Just my opinon.

lincpimp · 02.22.2008, 03:21 PM

To me the 2200 kv motor looks to be perfect for 5s for normal running, it would be geared slightly lower than an 9xl on 5s, but not much different.

You would then have the option of running it on 6s for speed runs or the like. For track use, most seem to think that 4s and a 2200kv motor is enough, but all they are trying to do is run at nitro speed, mainly cause that is all the track is designed for, and the vehicle may not be able to handle the extra speed.

A lower kv motor like 1800-1900 kv would be optimium for 6s, IMO. I routinely push my 7xl over 35k rpm, truck is geared for 40mph. I see no reason why a higher quality motor could not handle 40k rpm.

On a side note, does anyone here run a 1515 on 6s lipo in a maxx or revo truck? Seems like too much motor, but I guess the gearing will detirmine the load. And the motor should run cooler.

johnrobholmes · 02.22.2008, 03:21 PM

Why not a 4s or 5s setup? It is just as expensive to get a new battery as it is a (nice) new motor, maybe even cheaper. If they came out with a 1500kv motor we would have just as many complaints that it wasn't fast enough! With the initial 2200kv motor release, the 6s max MMM voltage will be able to squeeze the most out of the system RPM wise. Sure it might not be optimal for every vehicle, but name ONE motor that is.