Inside my full scale AC brushless motor

[lutach]

Originally Posted by doo540

Can some one please post some links to some good forums on full size vechile conversions?

http://www.evforum.net/forums/
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/index.php (I've seen RC-Monster's member(s) there)

[zeropointbug]

Thanks Lutach, I didn't know you were so connected. BTW, it's Automotive division... ;)

BRUSA is a joke if you ask me, for SURE they have the best components out there as far as quality and compactness (inverters are small), but the price.... $22,000 for a 100hp motor?! Come on, and $9000 for there 50kW inverter! How do they expect that to be feasible? If they are going to charge that much, then at least make some high powered units, something around 250Kw+.

Saminco, there inverter is not powerful enough. Aveox doesn't have anything. Semikron, nor Sevcon, I couldn't find any inverter at MS Kennedy, it think you were looking at an IGBT pack, the powre stage of an inverter.

AC Propulsion, I would love to use there system, $22,000 for motor/controller package, with built in 20kw battery charger, 220hp. They designed the power propulsion for the Tesla Roadster.

The best motors though, are made by UQM, they have a 125kw (167hp) motor system which weights 90lbs! $22,000 for motor/controller package. If i had the money, I would use it in my other EV project (light weight, high performance car) targeting 1000lbs curb weight, with at least 120hp, should get you from 0-60mph in < 4 secs, I'm aiming for 3 seconds. Won't be too hard with such a light weight. I'm also thinking of implementing a 10kw generator for long trips, with 200+mpg.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by zeropointbug

Thanks Lutach, I didn't know you were so connected. BTW, it's Automotive division... ;)

BRUSA is a joke if you ask me, for SURE they have the best components out there as far as quality and compactness (inverters are small), but the price.... $22,000 for a 100hp motor?! Come on, and $9000 for there 50kW inverter! How do they expect that to be feasible? If they are going to charge that much, then at least make some high powered units, something around 250Kw+.

Saminco, there inverter is not powerful enough. Aveox doesn't have anything. Semikron, nor Sevcon, I couldn't find any inverter at MS Kennedy, it think you were looking at an IGBT pack, the powre stage of an inverter.

AC Propulsion, I would love to use there system, $22,000 for motor/controller package, with built in 20kw battery charger, 220hp. They designed the power propulsion for the Tesla Roadster.

The best motors though, are made by UQM, they have a 125kw (167hp) motor system which weights 90lbs! $22,000 for motor/controller package. If i had the money, I would use it in my other EV project (light weight, high performance car) targeting 1000lbs curb weight, with at least 120hp, should get you from 0-60mph in < 4 secs, I'm aiming for 3 seconds. Won't be too hard with such a light weight. I'm also thinking of implementing a 10kw generator for long trips, with 200+mpg.

I've been trying to make my own electric vehicle since 1994 when I started messing with brushless in R/C. I was too young back then and now people are too greedy and prices have gone through the roof. They don't have the automotive devision anymore. The Simovert is made in the Automation Devision, I might be wrong as they have a lot of devision and plants spread around the globe.

Brusa is a joke, but they have the product.
Try this: http://www.isecorp.com/ise_products_.../inverters.php.

Saminco has made inverters for record speed runs. Aveox can make motors for good for 150Kw and controllers good for 800V and 200A http://www.aveox.com/Products-Controllers.aspx. Semikron has the Semistack for Automotive use http://www.semikron.com/internet/index.jsp?sekId=356. Sevcon has the espAC http://www.sevcon.com/pages/espac.html, but it's only good for 80V, but you can contact them to see if they can make one for higher voltage. Curtis Model 1238, but same situation as Sevcon. Here is the info on M.S. Kennedy motor controller: http://www.mskennedy.com/client_imag...les/4850re.pdf, http://www.mskennedy.com/client_imag...les/4851re.pdf and http://www.mskennedy.com/client_imag...les/4852rd.pdf. Kelly has brushless controllers too 120V 200A cont. http://www.kellycontroller.com/. UQM was also an option, but their price is up there. Raser Technologies makes some good stuff too http://www.rasertech.com/. There are many others in other countires and there's the system I'll be using for my super car which I can't give that info out .

[lutach]

I just have tons of info on this subject and I can go on forever . Here is a very nice conversion: http://www.electric7.com/.

As for my electric car, I shared some of the basic info with a top engineer at Flextronics Brasil and he was impressed. With one of the ideas I have he calculated a range of close to 500 miles at a speed of 65-80MPH. This was calculated with the weight of a Corvette. The drive system has enough power to push the Corvette to over 200MPH incase any one tries to bring out the "Electric are too slow" crap.

[zeropointbug]

Yup, me and you are quite similar as far as knowledge on this subject goes, except you have a few extra sources I don't. Really appreciate you posting the link to that ISE, the DUO-Inverter! I haven't seen that thing in like 3 years, i thought they stopped making them. It would be awesome for a twin motor hot rod! And they say they can sell the motors separately from the controller?! MetricMind cannot do this, because of agreement with EviSol Europe, and now he is not selling them altogether.

Seen the Electric7.... that guy needs to open up the taps on that thing! None of that granny peddle foot he has in the videos.

Come on Lutach, you and I both know the cost and complexity of a car with 500 miles range and 200mph capable... no easy means about it. What motors would you use? DC brushless? That's the only way IMO, and super expensive LiPo cells, BMS, etc. I have some pipe dreams too, you know. ;)

Have you heard of Shelby Super Cars new Ultimate Aero EV they announced?

Now this is something else, they say they are putting twin 500hp motors, AWD, and 200 miles range... and then when it gets weird, 10 minute charging on a 110volt outlet??? Either they wrote a typo and haven't publicly addressed it, or they don't know what they are talking about, or the third possibility, and my personal preference, they have tapped some sort of unknown energy source, possibly from the zeropoint field vacuum flux?

There first announcement last year, they said it would be 'years' between charging... and now it's 10 minutes on a 110volt outlet? Boy, wouldn't that be nice!


http://www.gizmag.com/lithium-ion-ba...ugh-mit/11244/
Did you see my post a couple weeks ago on A123's new chemistry they are coming out with in the next 2 years? 100mah/g (so thats 7500mah cells compared to the 2300mah M1 cells they have now)... and get this, 170kw/kg power density (400C rate). These are twice the energy density of the best lipo cells available today, these will change the landscape of electric vehicles NO DOUBT!

Check out: http://www.uqm.com/propulsion_specs.php

If I had the money, I would use two 125kw units for 250kw, and only 180lbs.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by zeropointbug

Come on Lutach, you and I both know the cost and complexity of a car with 500 miles range and 200mph capable... no easy means about it. What motors would you use? DC brushless? That's the only way IMO, and super expensive LiPo cells, BMS, etc. I have some pipe dreams too, you know. ;)

Have you heard of Shelby Super Cars new Ultimate Aero EV they announced?

Now this is something else, they say they are putting twin 500hp motors, AWD, and 200 miles range... and then when it gets weird, 10 minute charging on a 110volt outlet??? Either they wrote a typo and haven't publicly addressed it, or they don't know what they are talking about, or the third possibility, and my personal preference, they have tapped some sort of unknown energy source, possibly from the zeropoint field vacuum flux?

There first announcement last year, they said it would be 'years' between charging... and now it's 10 minutes on a 110volt outlet? Boy, wouldn't that be nice!


http://www.gizmag.com/lithium-ion-ba...ugh-mit/11244/
Did you see my post a couple weeks ago on A123's new chemistry they are coming out with in the next 2 years? 100mah/g (so thats 7500mah cells compared to the 2300mah M1 cells they have now)... and get this, 170kw/kg power density (400C rate). These are twice the energy density of the best lipo cells available today, these will change the landscape of electric vehicles NO DOUBT!

Check out: http://www.uqm.com/propulsion_specs.php

If I had the money, I would use two 125kw units for 250kw, and only 180lbs.

My set up will use mainly components that are currently available for military use. The battery manufacturer on sells assembled modules to customer's spec with all the BMS and they can even do a charger, but I have my source for the charger. Price is up there, but it'll be a super car and the higher range tame version for everyone else will be much cheaper. Just need to catch some attention first. I'm not worried about SSC, I mentioned them to snellemin and most of the things they say, I've said before they even thought about an electric car. I've read about that new material those MIT guys made, but they have sold it to a company in Belgium so it might not be in a A123 cell. The cells that I'll be using can already achieve over 200C discharge, but I will never see that kind of discharge anyways lol. UQM is nice, but the problem with most of these new companies is that they are public traded and they think they have the best technology so their prices are up there. Imagine if I had a billion dollar in bailout money? I saw a GM wheelchair on CNBC yesterday and just thought it was a desperate attempt by them. Oh well, we can now see how our money is being used . This also proves to us that most if not all of those guys have no idea what they're doing.

[zeropointbug]

BrianG, you actually DO need long range for high power, simply to get the power from a big enough battery.
It's not about a percentage of the max power for highway cruising, it's a specific Wh/mile based on rolling resistance/aerodynamics and to a certain extent, vehicle mass... with an educated guess on Wh/mile for the Ultimate Aero, I would say 220Wh/mile at 65 - 70mph, 220Wh x 65mph = 14,000 watts. 220Wh/mile x 200 miles range = 44,000kwh pack... assuming they use a voltage around 400 volts, 44,000kwh / 400 volts = 110 Ah. This is by not means difficult to do in a super car, this would be roughly 500 - 600lb. battery pack with today's lipo cells.


Lutach, that MIT battery tech was sold to two companies, one being A123, and the other was not stated, but most likely to this Belgium company you talk about.

I would love for you to post all this technology here so I can see it, rather than vaporware.

It's not simply about SSC bull$%&$*#! everyone here, from what they have said, that is WAY past the BS stage, it's a JOKE. So like I said before, it's either all a big sick joke, with the gun pointed at themselves... OR they have harnessed some exotic technology to make their claims real. Everyone laughed at them a few years ago when they said they would make the worlds fastest car, but look at them, they said they would do something, and then they actually went and did exactly what they said they would do, and then some.

Who makes these 200C batteries you speak of? I would love to know.