Is the CDC for real?

[Finnster]

Its a specific group of vaccines that is being recalled, yet the details are light from the story, and I don't see anything on the FDA or Sanofi website giving more info.

However, a recall does not mean the product is bad. I know there have been problem getting a strong immune response in young kids, so they did up the dosage to two rounds for kids. Could be that this lot is responding poorly, or some outside chance of a misformulation. I can guarantee you the phones are very busy right now over at Sanofi and the FDA right now. We'll find out soon enough.

Vaccines are controlled substances. They are not something anyone can just get their hands on.

To some of the larger points:

Thimerisol has been removed from a large number of vaccines. There are a number of H1N1 vaccines w/o Thimerisol and can be requested.

However, a signifigant heath risk of Thimerisol has not been demonstrated. I know its a controversal subject with lots of strong opinions, and I know Luc's personal interest, so I don't mean to be offensive.

However, I think its very fair to say that if the danger's of H1N1 have been over hyped, so too have been the dangers of Thimerisol. (from New England Journal of Med.) The data just isn't there establishing a link. Is mercury good for you? Of course not. But, you have to look at the total spectrum of risk. Mercury is in the water, esp near coal-burning areas, as well as in many commonly eaten species of fish. Tuna, swordfish, red snapper, etc. This is a form of mercury that is less well excreted than the form in the vaccines.

So what you have to determine, how does the once a year injection of the Thimerisol (if any) compare to all the chronic mercury exposure you receive over the year from your diet and environment? Each person has to make up his own mind on the levels of risk.

It is absolutely true tho that the dangers of flu are very real. 36000 (est) people die of flu ea year in the US. Hundreds of those are children.
I can tell you as a parent of two small kids (1 & 3yo) in daycare, I far more worry about them catching something there than the thimerisol exposure they will recieve from the vaccines. They always have some bug or another, and a flu outbreak is very possible, esp if many parents don't get their kids vaccinated. Again, ea person has to make this calculus.

Lastly, skepticism is healthy, but I think its fair to apply it in both directions. It makes me very skepitcal to see websites that extol the dangers of mercury meanwhile selling expensive potions and poultices for "mercury detox." Products with dubious medical claims, none of which is evaluated by FDA or clinical trials, and has no manufacturing regulations? No thank you, I'll rather trust the professionals backed up with real studies and data. There are people that have died taking stuff like that.

None of the claims on that site even make much sense to me. They are long on references, but all their claims boil down to "hey, doesn't this (vague and nebulous) condition seem oddly similar to this condition for mercury poisoning?" Shyness and fatigue? As if no one else has that.

I don't understand the widespread cynicism and distrust of science these days. Then again, if less than 40% of the country believes in evolution (which, as a degreed biologist and professional scientist, is like asking whether you believe in gravity or not,) ....IDK.



So why would gov'ts be pushing the vaccines? Beyond general public health concerns, hospitalizing hundreds of thousands of people every year for flu complications, which many could have been avoided had they been vaccinated, is extremely expensive. Esp if the gov't is on the hook for the medical bills thru state-run programs. $50 for a flu shot vs $50,000 for a hospital stay is a no brainer. Simply pissing tax $ away. Ins companies will be doing the same too.

[lutach]

How can they make it more potent? Will they be adding more dead viruses in the vaccine?

[Finnster]

Originally Posted by lutach

How can they make it more potent? Will they be adding more dead viruses in the vaccine?

I have no idea what is going w/ that. It was supposed to be a slow growing virus, maybe there were problems w/ that. Perhaps its just showing low immune response to the virus (as was seen earlier, and kids got upped to 2 rounds) and may require some reformulation of the injectible (say for a higher titer count.)

They are saying tho that kids who recieved that vaccine won't need additional shots, nor was it done for safety reasons. Important point.

There is continous monitoring and testing that is going on w/ the vaccine, so they probably saw something that wasn't going as well as hoped. So far it was only Sanofi, and not any of the other 3 manu's. We shall see.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by Finnster

I have no idea what is going w/ that. It was supposed to be a slow growing virus, maybe there were problems w/ that. Perhaps its just showing low immune response to the virus (as was seen earlier, and kids got upped to 2 rounds) and may require some reformulation of the injectible (say for a higher titer count.)

They are saying tho that kids who recieved that vaccine won't need additional shots, nor was it done for safety reasons. Important point.

There is continous monitoring and testing that is going on w/ the vaccine, so they probably saw something that wasn't going as well as hoped. So far it was only Sanofi, and not any of the other 3 manu's. We shall see.

Ok, I'll be watching. I'm also hoping I can get most of the vaccines to do some independent research to find out what's actually in them. I really don't understand why our kids here in the US needs all of these vaccines and the numbers shows a lot of side effects from the time they all came into play. My uncles and a few other people can't answer none of the questions as well, but they know some of the things that can cause side effects.

[georgec]

Hi lutac, I had the Swine flu (or so the doctors said that's what I had) almost two months ago and I don't remember ever being that sick before. My fever shot up to almost 105F I felt like I had been beat all over with a baseball bat. Spent four days in the hospital wondering if this was it for my old a$$ It took another three weeks before I began too feel normal again. Well as normal as it gets for me. Oh BTW I'm 55+ I should add I live in the middle TN area.
georgec

[lutach]

Originally Posted by georgec

Hi lutac, I had the Swine flu (or so the doctors said that's what I had) almost two months ago and I don't remember ever being that sick before. My fever shot up to almost 105F I felt like I had been beat all over with a baseball bat. Spent four days in the hospital wondering if this was it for my old a$$ It took another three weeks before I began too feel normal again. Well as normal as it gets for me. Oh BTW I'm 55+ I should add I live in the middle TN area.
georgec

The only time I remember getting the Flu was when I took a vaccine to get into school here in the US. The reaction I had to the vaccine was almost immediate. You're still young George and I'll bet it was just the Flu.

[lutach]

So basically they're saying the vaccines lost its strength from sitting on the shelf. That shows me that a lot of people are not falling for this trap. Now the other concern comes up, what will they do to make the vaccines last longer on the shelf?