MaxAmps Race Edition Lipos

[BrianG]

Standardized testing has been discusses numerous times but goes nowhere. Consistent and repeatable testing would have to be done by a reputable third party. Once such a company and procedure exists, coming up with an arbitrary standard will be all but impossible to satisfy everyone. A plane guy has different requirements than a heli guy or a car guy, and each group can be further divided by how the packs are used (racer vs basher vs top speed).

Personally, I would be happy with a simple graph showing voltage vs amperage vs temperature vs usable capacity. That's it. Let the consumer decide if the graph results are adequate for their needs/usage without having to come up with an arbitrary X volts/cell @ Y current @ Z temperature standard, which will likely change as the technology advances, and makes comparing apples to apples more difficult.

[rootar]

the "true C" term maxamps has coined is the equilivant of everyone else's "burst" ratings

so realistically we are looking for a pack that can do 70-80c continous with a 140-150c burst rating. Anything less and yes it is false advertising. OF course they can always say that 150 True C is what they deem it to be since they made it up to begin with.

honestly if this pack does 45c continous ill be surprised

One thing i know for certin is that the hyperion vx series has met or surpassed their 35c/65c ratings in every test ive seen, while other 50/100c and 45/90c packs have failed to meet their advertised ratings.

[lincpimp]

Originally Posted by BrianG

Personally, I would be happy with a simple graph showing voltage vs amperage vs temperature vs usable capacity. That's it. Let the consumer decide if the graph results are adequate for their needs/usage without having to come up with an arbitrary X volts/cell @ Y current @ Z temperature standard, which will likely change as the technology advances, and makes comparing apples to apples more difficult.

Yes, this is what we need. A method to compare packs in the real world. Most people could care less what the numbers are, just how it compares to other "known" packs.

Problem with this is that once this info was out, you would find a "diamond in the rough" and that supplier would get the lions share of the sales. And I believe it would be an out of country supplier, who spends very little on advertising and can sell stuff cheaper.

Maxamps, for all their flaws, has always had alot of advertising, promotion and presence at local and national electric events. They promote their products well, and get alot of business that way. Most of the bad taste here comes from the beginning, and the obviously inflated specs they had. I am not sure if they still do that, but this 150c claim does nothing to make me think the DON'T.

[hemiblas]

So my question becomes when we see the graphs of the 150C rating what do we compare them to? We really cant prove or disprove them because there is no standard.

I'm not sure if anyone has noticed by the new turnigy 5000 mah 20C packs are beefier than the 25C flighmax packs of about a year ago. This makes me think the new 20C packs are going to hold voltage better and last longer. Maybe they are getting closer to the 100A continuous rating they are promising?

Still makes it all that more confusing.

[lincpimp]

If they post a graph that is not true then they are outright lying. Saying your stuff is gangsta is not really lying, just making claims with no way to back them up.

I could say I am the best looking guy on this forum, and even though it is true there is no real way to back it up. MA have never really posted graphs on any of their products. I have seen a few and they were middle of the road specs, not as good as hyperion or enerland. That was a while back so I would be interested to see how the latest batch of MA products work.

I would love to see them live up to their claims, as they are an american company and we need more good american companies keeping the money in the country. Our current economy can only handle so many mine collapses and democrats...

[What's_nitro?]

Originally Posted by hemiblas

So my question becomes when we see the graphs of the 150C rating what do we compare them to? We really cant prove or disprove them because there is no standard.

We don't need a standard to interpret a graph. All it needs to show is V/t @ a constant discharge. Cell temperature should be mentioned, also.

[BrianG]

We compare them however we want. If we want a battery that will maintain 3.6v/cell at 60A continuous and 3.4v/cell at 150A bursts, we just look through graphs to find the packs that meet or exceed those criteria.

Or, instead of poring through graphs, have the label say something like "will maintain X v/cell at Y A continuous with a Z*F temperature rise over ambient". Maybe include a similar line for burst (and state how long the burst is and how often it is repeated).

Either way, C rating alone is useless without other parameters. A company could claim 50C, but neglect to mention that is for 1 micro-second at 3.0v/cell with a cell temp of 200*F. Whereas another company could claim 20C but it's rated for continuous duty at 3.6v/cell with a cell temp of 100*F. You'd probably go for the 50C cell based on C rate alone, but after reading the rest, the 20C cell is obviously much better.

Originally Posted by lincpimp

I would love to see them live up to their claims, as they are an american company and we need more good american companies keeping the money in the country. Our current economy can only handle so many mine collapses and democrats...

James, you kill me man!

Though I have thrown in my 2 cents already on this, James makes a great point. It is getting more and more important to support companies that are American.

I ditched the accounting thing and went to work for a Freight company and have noticed things coming through that are Chinese all the way, things I never imagined would be made overseas at all, like truck and train parts....big parts too, not just silly stuff. (stuff they require to run) I know this is far away from RC Car stuff, but have seen things come through this week in particular and it has been on my mind......

[slimthelineman]

Best lookin? Linc I think that worn out box of lady parts on your avitar is all the evidence we need! Really though if maxamps could pull it together and put up the evidence to back there stuff it would be awesome to see an american company take hold of the market and thrive. It will be hard to compete with the walmart priced overseas companies though as long as there are cheapskates like me in the mix. Not that I'm not willing to shell out extra dough for the good stuff but so far the cheap crap has worked just as well for me and it's only 100 C...

As for stuff being made in china, most American companies only care about the bottom line and will have it made in the north pole if that's were they can have it done the cheapest.

[PBO]

Originally Posted by BrianG

Personally, I would be happy with a simple graph showing voltage vs amperage vs temperature vs usable capacity. That's it. Let the consumer decide if the graph results are adequate for their needs/usage

I agree, although don't you think that communicating the information is a large part of demystifying the cell/pack capabilities for the consumer?

Simple graphs or X/Y charts provide educated users raw information so they can make informed decisions but they may leave new users in a similar situation whereby savvy marketing can eclipse data

I'd love to see the data displayed in a 3 or 4 field adapted Venn diagram or maybe even a radar chart. I believe this is more approachable for new or casual users & goes a long way toward displaying the most appropriate use for the cell/pack...if the sweet spot matches your intended use - you should be good. In theory!!

[BrianG]

Whatever method shows how the packs actually perform is fine with me. But personally, if you are in the market to get proper lipos, you should already be somewhat informed. And if not, that's where the forums come in.

[nitrostarter]

Originally Posted by PBO

I agree, although don't you think that communicating the information is a large part of demystifying the cell/pack capabilities for the consumer?

I couldn't agree more here PBO!! This is the biggest problem. While its a brilliant marketing strategy, it's false hope for the best products in my eyes.

I think I gave the example in a prior post of even my LHS owner being misinformed of Maxamps C rating.

If there was a standard Graph or Venn diagram to post the packs performances, then manufacturers could advertise at extreme burst rates if they wanted. The proof of performance would be there in the diagrams.

[JERRY2KONE]

The bottom line here is that if you sell good products on a constant basis then people will flock to your store and keep the cash flowling in. If you constantly sell crap, then you will get the share of the market you deserve.

James is the best looking person on RCM??? James I think you have been drinking too much tiquilla or sniffing too much of your paint fumes at the shop.

[BrianG]

Originally Posted by JERRY2KONE

... James is the best looking person on RCM??? James I think you have been drinking too much tiquilla or sniffing too much of your paint fumes at the shop.

Well, he does have a purdy mouth...

[Thomasis]

This is my first post on this, so take it with a grain of salt.
I have always tried to buy American when it comes to the RC hobby.
There are many times you can't, but I have given MA a try on lipos 5 times.
Two of the packs came with bad cells, two were not to minimum requirements and one that I bought a year ago still works like a champ. I don't want to hurt anyones feelings here but I feel like I wasted a ton of money on an American product that does not hold true to their labling. I have had great success with Turnigy brand so far at 1/3 of the cost of MA and better quality.
I won't go back to MA. You can't put an inferior product on the market at a premium price, sell it to a customer and expect them to come back and that's it. It would be one thing if they sold these batteries for what they were worth, but they are not. 4 out of 5 batteries that don't do what they claim, shame on me for buying the last 4.