MaxAmps Race Edition Lipos

[suicideneil]

Originally Posted by Electric Dave

I don't understand the obsession with graphs. Do you drive graphs? Do you race graphs against everyone else to make the A-Main? Graphs are useless. All that matters is the performance at the loads we put on the packs in this hobby. I believe these packs will more than satisfy the needs of my ESC and motor in my 1/8th scale vehicles.

If a graph gets posted showing the pack handling a 150c load for 1 second, that won't mean a single thing to me. Nor will seeing a graph showing a 75c load for an entire discharge. Seeing my truggy sail to a checkered flag victory in a 12 minute main, clearing the triple every time, that means something to me. Oh, wait, that's what my current MaxAmps 6500 pack did for me just Saturday.

These guys are innovative and enterprising. They make good products and they market them well. On top of all that, they are out there in the hobby. You can see them at RCX, they have a phone number on their web site and now they are even here on this forum. If you are not a fan, so be it but live and let live...

If you paid $300 for a 75c lipo and it only performed as a ~30c lipo, you'd be upset wouldnt you, whether you won the race or not? You could have spent 1/3 of the money on a true 25-30c lipo and still won the race = value for money & getting what you paid for, thats the thing we're talking about here. You can win races with batts that are much cheaper and hold true to their ratings, there is no need for exaggerated claims of discharge capability since it only misleads & impresses the unknowing ( over head is nice but few 1/8 applications require more than about a 40-50c lipo, Nick case not withstanding ). If MA werent so obsessed with crazy-high ratings & advertising everywhere possible, their prices could come down & their warrenty could be improved ( actually replace a bad pack, not offer a discount on a new one.. ) whilst still maintaining a healthy profit margin- word of mouth is a powerful marketing & advertising tool, but it is currently working against MA, too many bad feelings from disappointed owners and too many people fed up with the extortionate prices; if they could justify charging more than the real premium brands then fair enough, but at present I see only a poor graph and false ratings listed on their site...

[lincpimp]

Originally Posted by brandonwilcox

I have a video of our maxamps.com batteries starting dragsters with 1000+ HP engines. So I think you will be impressed with their performance.

Toyota and honda make cars that can power themselves for miles using only a crap load of 18650 lithiums which can barely handle 1c... I could start a dragster off AA batteries with enough of them. You can hand crank most motors too... Blown drag cars run 9:1 compression or so, I could likely trun them over by pulling down on the blower drive belt.

Plus most rc car guys on this forum like to use our lipos for running our rc cars. So some sort of "stunt spectacle" vid you have will not really be needed or enjoyed.

An eagle tree or similar graph with a very high sample rate (milliseconds) would be nice. Apply the 150c load on it momentarily and repeat. See how the battery does. Do this at the tabs, no need for the pesky 12 gaugewire to get in the way of a real test.

I would also like to see the 70c cont graphed. 50 amps cont is a lot of pull, but we are not the boat forum here.. We do spike alot of current, especially the rc drag guys.

Keep the info coming, just skip the shock and awe stuff, better to save that for the traxxas forum and the flux owners.

[whitrzac]

Originally Posted by lincpimp

Toyota and honda make cars that can power themselves for miles using only a crap load of 18650 lithiums which can barely handle 1c... I could start a dragster off AA batteries with enough of them. You can hand crank most motors too... Blown drag cars run 9:1 compression or so, I could likely trun them over by pulling down on the blower drive belt.

Plus most rc car guys on this forum like to use our lipos for running our rc cars. So some sort of "stunt spectacle" vid you have will not really be needed or enjoyed.

An eagle tree or similar graph with a very high sample rate (milliseconds) would be nice. Apply the 150c load on it momentarily and repeat. See how the battery does. Do this at the tabs, no need for the pesky 12 gaugewire to get in the way of a real test.

I would also like to see the 70c cont graphed. 50 amps cont is a lot of pull, but we are not the boat forum here.. We do spike alot of current, especially the rc drag guys.

Keep the info coming, just skip the shock and awe stuff, better to save that for the traxxas forum and the flux owners.

well put


has anyone looked at MA's prices recently?? there getting close to the average price for a "race" lipo...

[JERRY2KONE]

The bottom line here is that MaxAmps is boasting a "race ready LiPo pack that can handle a "true 150C discharge". Your words not ours. What that means in real terms is that this battery should be able to hold 150C discharge for at least 5 or 10 seconds at a time without having its voltage drop below 3.2volts or the battery pack heat up and explode, correct? Just because you see a milisecond spike even close to that amp draw does not qulaify any battery source to claim a 150C rating. If your add states that it will handle 150C spike/1 second bursts, than you will have stated the truth if in fact it can actually do this, which we still have not seen.

"C" ratings are based on a batteries ability to hold its nominal voltage (3.2v) without drooping under load=150c for a specified amount of time (lets say 10 seconds) or continuous load without melting. Please show us that your "Race Ready LiPo battery" can stand up to your claims. Otherwise it is just a bunch of hogwash or false advertising on your part.

[thzero]

Cut down the pricing too boot, since you're buying Chinese cells in bulk and just badging them.

I have a rc mag that has a MaxAmps ad for price matching, which says see the website for details. Go to the website and nothing is there of course.

Thanks for the responses guys. I am doing what I can to get you more graphs and videos in a timely matter. Please understand, I was at iHobby all weekend and I have a lot to catch up on. All the material I have to market these packs wasn't ready to go, but I wanted to announce the packs for iHobby as it is a exciting release for us. So thanks again for being patient with me. I am working on getting some more strenuous test results for you, so that is on the way. Hopefully Mike and a few others I sent batteries too will also post their results too when they get a chance to do their testing. I am aware that continious tests aren't as important as burst tests. We are working on getting those to you shortly.

Regarding our graph and the comments about it. That is the screen shot of the graph off the computer. No photoshop, no changing, just the facts. As you can see at 50 amps the capacity drops a little to 5700mah. This is as honest as we can be. We also took a video during testing if you would like to watch that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeT7JCmUIp8

suicideneil
You say our prices are outrageous? Well we actually have lowered our pricing structure quite a bit. Our prices are very competitive with other reputable brands. So can you please point out some actually prices that we can both check together online with similar quality packs. Also what is the guarantee on these packs?

lincpimp
No matter how you look at it an RC car starting a 1000+ HP dragster is cool. I'm not a auto mechanic nor am I very familiar with dragsters but I think it's cool that there are guys out there that run our packs in every event they run. If this is something that doesn't interest you then that's ok but I think there are some guys out there that will get a kick out of the video.

JERRY2KONE
Here is how we rate our cells.


*Please note this is a cell rating, as you know Deans and Traxxas connectors can only handle around 70 amps continious.

Our 150C Packs
150C - Maximum burst rating without swelling or damaging the cell. This is a 1 second burst.
100C - Maximum sustained burst rating without swelling or damaging the cell. This is a 10 second burst.
75C - This is the continious rating that the cell can handle through the full discharge without swelling or damaging the cell.

thzero
I am unfamiliar with that ad. It must have been something that was done before I came on board. Maybe give us a call in the office and ask to speak with Austin. 888-654-4450

Thanks again guys and remember I am here to help you get the information you need. So be patient as I get the rest of the other material and if there is something that you would like to see just post up and I will try to provide that for you.

Have a good one.

Brandon

[thzero]

This needs to be posted on the website. The website has plenty of 'True 150C' marketing lingo on it, but has nothing that says what it is. Perhaps next to the "Lipo Care Page" there needs to be an "Lipo Explanation Page" that explains what you mean by your various terms, spelled out. Do other battery resellers do it? Maybe not, but here is your chance to set yourself apart in the industry, and perhaps set something positive going forward.

Originally Posted by brandonwilcox

Our 150C Packs
150C - Maximum burst rating without swelling or damaging the cell. This is a 1 second burst.
100C - Maximum sustained burst rating without swelling or damaging the cell. This is a 10 second burst.
75C - This is the continious rating that the cell can handle through the full discharge without swelling or damaging the cell.

That being said. I would highly suggest that you get in touch with ThunderPower, SMC, (and other US or Canadian based battery resellers) etc. and figure out a common set of testing scenarios you can all live with and publish. They all need to play by the same rules, same can't really be said of the HongKong/Chinese/et al. companies.

Also talk to the motor and ESC (CC, Novak, Tekin, etc.) guys and find out their exact needs.

Enough of the "black magic", people want facts and want to know what they are spending their hard earned cash on, especially given the economic times in which we are currently embroiled.

As for the pricing, I'll go dig up and post a pic of it if I can find the mag again. But unfortunately you need to deal with the HongKong, etc. competitors as well as western based competitors. You need to deal in facts, not rants, about why your pricing is high versus theirs. Trashing other companies to defend yourself, well that just makes you look bad (something politicians have yet to learn). And when I say "you" I mean MaxAmps as a company, not any specific person.

Bottom line, people will buy a quality and competively priced product that is backed by good customer service. Look at CC as one example of a smaller player in the industry, compared to say HPI/Traxxas. Excellent product, excellent customer service (really beyond excellent). Yes more expensive than say some of the overseas companies (which is not to say overseas products are bad, etc), but people still buy and use CC products.

[mistercrash]

I have to point out something to you Mr Wilcox, you keep on thanking us for our patience. Well it looks to me that you are the one who has been very patient with us so I thank you in return. You have represented your company very well up to now.

Originally Posted by brandonwilcox

75C - This is the continious rating that the cell can handle through the full discharge without swelling or damaging the cell.

THIS is the testing I would like to see, it was mentionned before by someone else IIRC. You don't even have to go up to 487.5 amps. If Maxamps' new race lipo can handle a continuous 450 amp load through its full discharge without swelling or be damaged, THAT would be impressive. With the graph posted of course. I like graphs.

Originally Posted by thzero

This needs to be posted on the website. The website has plenty of 'True 150C' marketing lingo on it, but has nothing that says what it is. Perhaps next to the "Lipo Care Page" there needs to be an "Lipo Explanation Page" that explains what you mean by your various terms, spelled out. Do other battery resellers do it? Maybe not, but here is your chance to set yourself apart in the industry, and perhaps set something positive going forward.



That being said. I would highly suggest that you get in touch with ThunderPower, SMC, (and other US or Canadian based battery resellers) etc. and figure out a common set of testing scenarios you can all live with and publish. They all need to play by the same rules, same can't really be said of the HongKong/Chinese/et al. companies.

Also talk to the motor and ESC (CC, Novak, Tekin, etc.) guys and find out their exact needs.

Enough of the "black magic", people want facts and want to know what they are spending their hard earned cash on, especially given the economic times in which we are currently embroiled.

As for the pricing, I'll go dig up and post a pic of it if I can find the mag again. But unfortunately you need to deal with the HongKong, etc. competitors as well as western based competitors. You need to deal in facts, not rants, about why your pricing is high versus theirs. Trashing other companies to defend yourself, well that just makes you look bad (something politicians have yet to learn). And when I say "you" I mean MaxAmps as a company, not any specific person.

Bottom line, people will buy a quality and competively priced product that is backed by good customer service. Look at CC as one example of a smaller player in the industry, compared to say HPI/Traxxas. Excellent product, excellent customer service (really beyond excellent). Yes more expensive than say some of the overseas companies (which is not to say overseas products are bad, etc), but people still buy and use CC products.

This is number 2 on my list of things to do this week. As far as working with other manufacturers and rating the batteries as in industry, we tried that with surge watt ratings. People didn't want to play ball seeing as they want to market a C rating. Since that is the case, we are going to post on the website exactly how we rate our packs and all the information we have regarding our C ratings.

Originally Posted by mistercrash

I have to point out something to you Mr Wilcox, you keep on thanking us for our patience. Well it looks to me that you are the one who has been very patient with us so I thank you in return. You have represented your company very well up to now.



THIS is the testing I would like to see, it was mentionned before by someone else IIRC. You don't even have to go up to 487.5 amps. If Maxamps' new race lipo can handle a continuous 450 amp load through its full discharge without swelling or be damaged, THAT would be impressive. With the graph posted of course. I like graphs.

Ok let me see what I can do.

Thanks

Brandon

[lincpimp]

I would like to say that I think Mr Wilcox has represented MA very well in this thread. We are a tough crowd, and he appears to be taking our heavy criticism as constructive. Big step up from when Jason was here and he took everything personally... Good job Brandon, keep the info coming.

[snellemin]

Originally Posted by lincpimp

I would like to say that I think Mr Wilcox has represented MA very well in this thread. We are a tough crowd, and he appears to be taking our heavy criticism as constructive. Big step up from when Jason was here and he took everything personally... Good job Brandon, keep the info coming.

+1

He is keeping his cool.

[moneybagsfor-rc]

+1

Wilcox, does this mean that your other packs labeled as "True 60C" or "True 30C" mean that they are rated for 60C for one second and 30C for one second respectively?

If Maxamps is using their C rating consistently as their "1 second burst" rating, that is okay. But the word "true" is such a messy word that it really should be dropped from their marketing strategy.

Electric Dave and Thomasis
The only legitimate alternative to a graph would be to purchase ~30 different battery packs and construct a confidence interval over the results holding all other conditions constant, such as temperature, driving conditions, motor/esc, wiring, setup, vehicle. Saying that "my pack runs great!" is only worth it's weight in words and has a sample size of 1, which doesn't tell us anything really. The only substitute for intrinsic evidence (ie a graph) is empirical evidence - so start buying your batteries and let's get those results!

You do drive graphs. And an Eagle Tree logs them.

Originally Posted by moneybagsfor-rc

+1

Wilcox, does this mean that your other packs labeled as "True 60C" or "True 30C" mean that they are rated for 60C for one second and 30C for one second respectively?

No. The 150C packs are labeled differently from the other packs as they are new cells. I have to go in and update the other pack ratings on the older packs as some of them are continuous ratings and some of them are burst ratings. This should be completed over the next couple days. All the information will be posted on the LiPo care page probably by Thursday.

Thanks,

Brandon

[moneybagsfor-rc]

That's good, and a lot of work for you! But it will be well worth it to have a consistent nomenclature, mitigating future skepticism. (Most of us thought true 150c meant 150c continuous, given that true 60c and true 30c implies 60c and 30c continuous)

And wouldn't you agree that "true" is such a sticky word to work with? I mean, think of how exhaustive your evidence will be in order to prove "truth?" What if diamond carriers used "true" to describe their karat ratings? It seems like the word "true" has caused a barrel of monkeys that is just impossible to contain.

[moneybagsfor-rc]

A legitimate 75C continuous battery pack would be my next purchase.