Castle HV Hydra, but where is the car version!!!!

[Finnster]

Originally Posted by lutach

Look at what Joe said:

http://www.rumrunnerracing.com/fefor...37&postcount=9

Would you mind quoting that in this post? I can't access that from here, but I can pretty mcuh guess what was said from the replies.


I am now running an HV system w/ my MGM and its awesome. Just bc you run 8-10S doesn't mean its automatically high power, it just depends on the amp draw, and if done properly the efficiency is huge and the system stays super cool. I can run mine WOT thru long grass non-stop for the entire pack and the whole system barely gets warm. Its so freaking cool (literally and figuratively) compared to the 8XL system I had before where I had to watch temps and worry about pushing the system too hard.

The efficiency of my system is 94-95% according to Neu's motor calc and my ET data. Compare this to my XL system that was at best 75% eff. I have an amp draw of 45A max, but way more powerful than my 8XL drawing nearly 120A on half the cell count (notice that would equate to 90A is eff were the same, that ~30A diff is wasted as heat.) Even tho my system is "only" 1300W, its actually putting out more usable power than my 1600W XL system.

On top of all that, that means better runtime, smaller batts needed, lighter weight. Instead of buying a 4s2p batt, run it 8S1P and get better results. For extreme speed I'll get a 10S1P 2100 batt, weighs less than 550g, and puts out the equiv of a 2600+W XL system. I don't think I would want to run less than 8S again.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by Finnster

Would you mind quoting that in this post? I can't access that from here, but I can pretty mcuh guess what was said from the replies.


I am now running an HV system w/ my MGM and its awesome. Just bc you run 8-10S doesn't mean its automatically high power, it just depends on the amp draw, and if done properly the efficiency is huge and the system stays super cool. I can run mine WOT thru long grass non-stop for the entire pack and the whole system barely gets warm. Its so freaking cool (literally and figuratively) compared to the 8XL system I had before where I had to watch temps and worry about pushing the system too hard.

The efficiency of my system is 94-95% according to Neu's motor calc and my ET data. Compare this to my XL system that was at best 75% eff. I have an amp draw of 45A max, but way more powerful than my 8XL drawing nearly 120A on half the cell count (notice that would equate to 90A is eff were the same, that ~30A diff is wasted as heat.) Even tho my system is "only" 1300W, its actually putting out more usable power than my 1600W XL system.

On top of all that, that means better runtime, smaller batts needed, lighter weight. Instead of buying a 4s2p batt, run it 8S1P and get better results. For extreme speed I'll get a 10S1P 2100 batt, weighs less than 550g, and puts out the equiv of a 2600+W XL system. I don't think I would want to run less than 8S again.

Here is what Joe Said:

"I'll work on the Hydra HV pics gents...not sure if we have some ready or if I'll have to snap some when the pallets get back from IHobby. Those who want a 12s car version are going to have to do an AWFUL LOT of begging to get that. The Monster Max will be good for 6s and 200A...that should be good for nearly all apps...1/10 monster, 1/8th scale buggy (possibly truggy). About the only thing it wouldn't cover is 1/5th buggies like the Baja, and other crazy scratch built vehicles like I saw at IHobby this past weekend in IL....but I'm sure you guys will try it anyways. Let me know how it goes.
__________________
www.castlecreations.com"

I love my cool running HV set up. It is amazing that the only thing I have to watch for are my diffs and shafts LOL. Like you said the efficiency is up there and everything runs cool when geared right.

[lutach]

I don't know what he meant by begging, but it has been over 2 yrs that people have waited for the MMM and almost the same amount of time for people asking for a HV system for cars. That comment by Joe is not right from my point of view. I don't know what other members here thinks, but I didn't like it. What is he trying to say? We are not good enough for HV Castle goodies.

[johnrobholmes]

How many people do you know that would buy an HV car controller and use it? How many people actually have 12s setups or even the motor to use it? How about a vehicle big enough? The only production vehicle is the 5b.


His point is that there might be 100 people tops that would actually use it to its potential right now. That isn't enough to develop a new controller. If I made ESCs I wouldn't spend the time on a HV car controller yet, the market isn't there.

[Finnster]

WOW.... I mean, WOW....

I can think of a new acronym for Serum to add to the list..they can GFTS.
Maybe that one won't make the list.

I'm not going to beg for @#$&. They can build it or they can not. There are plenty of other companies making HV controllers. MGM, Kontronic, etc to name a few that have been proven to work here already.

We've been "begging" for CC to fix the Neu motor cogging on the MM, and they have yet to ablige that, to make their controller work properly. How's that going?

If the MMM is only going to do 6S, then I have no use for one. I don't need 200A controller. What, am I going to buy 6S 10000mah 20c batts? i don't think so. As far as I can see, that will be no better than the MGM 16018, w/ hopefully better reverse software, and easier service in the US. A 70-100A 10-12S controller from CC would be sweet, then again I already have one and I bet would have better luck "begging" MGM to tweak the reverse software.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by johnrobholmes

How many people do you know that would buy an HV car controller and use it? How many people actually have 12s setups or even the motor to use it? How about a vehicle big enough? The only production vehicle is the 5b.


His point is that there might be 100 people tops that would actually use it to its potential right now. That isn't enough to develop a new controller. If I made ESCs I wouldn't spend the time on a HV car controller yet, the market isn't there.

I own 2 HV cars right now. I already used 12S in my BPP truggy. I ran it 10S a few days ago. A few members here run HV set ups. It is also not the size of the vehicle as most 1/8 scale vehicles do fine with the right Kv motor. BTW I ran 10S lipos with my Schulze 40.160 and Neu 1521 1y. My 12S set up was the same Schulze 40.160 and the Hacker ION-X motor. There is a lot of people switching to HV systems and if the rest knew the benefits, they would too. One example: I ran my BPP truggy with one 36V A123 pack a couple months back and my run time was 28 minutes. After the run my Schulze wasn't ever warm and my Hacker was only warm. This was in a 80+ degrees day.

[johnrobholmes]

Alright, so we have one person on the list. I'm not saying there isn't huge benefits to running 10 or 12s. It just isn't in the normal RC guy scope yet.

[johnrobholmes]

Just to let you guys know, Im not against it by any means. I am just playing devils advocate here. If you want the controller built, pool up about 20 grand and get it made.

[Finnster]

Originally Posted by johnrobholmes

How many people do you know that would buy an HV car controller and use it? How many people actually have 12s setups or even the motor to use it? How about a vehicle big enough? The only production vehicle is the 5b.


His point is that there might be 100 people tops that would actually use it to its potential right now. That isn't enough to develop a new controller. If I made ESCs I wouldn't spend the time on a HV car controller yet, the market isn't there.

Everyone already running 4s2p setups already has the car/truck to do it. The only reason to keep low voltage setups is to be able to use NIMH. More serious BL users move quickly away from NIMH anyway, so it doesn't matter.

What is missing is people's understanding of electrical power.
P=V*A
You can get power thru lots of amps (as in LV setups) or thru more voltage. Motor efficiency increases w/ voltage, and less amps also means less resistive losses. The motors are the same, just diff winds.

The net result is a better setup w/ HV. Less loss of power, less waste heat, and more TQ.

EX: my 5S2P A123 setup w/ MM/8XL
117A @ 14V=1628W peak

Now same pack, rewired as 10S1P:
45A @ 29V= 1305W (notice the lower V sag as well)

Yes it is less power, but due to efficency gains its more power to the wheels. Its a bit unfair as the Hv motor is a Neu, but still.

8XL: 70-75% eff
Neu 1515/2Y (1100 kv): 94-95%

Lets just say 70% & 95%: (1305W*.95)/.7=1770W
That would be the equiv power on the low-eff system. What you can also do is run cheaper XL motors and enjoy a reasonable level of eff and cool running on HV. Instead of a 8XL on 4S, run ~14-16XL on 10-12S. Instead of a 4S2P 8K batt, run a 10s-12S 2100 batt.

In the end the costs and weights are close (HV has an edge if done right) and you have longer runtimes as you are not wasting so much power. This is why all the planes and helis go HV for larger scale/higher power apps. There is a point of diminishing returns, but I don't think it is @ 6S.

[Finnster]

Originally Posted by johnrobholmes

Just to let you guys know, Im not against it by any means. I am just playing devils advocate here. If you want the controller built, pool up about 20 grand and get it made.

...or we can just buy the HV car controllers that already exist. Its not my loss.

[johnrobholmes]

There must be a reason that you haven't bought the existing HV car controllers already, right?

[lutach]

He has one. I have a lot.

[nl12]

Not many people run 10s+ because there is no ideal equipment to support it, like low kv 1515 motors, a proper controler, a truck that can easily hold 10s-15s lipo, also charging a 10-15s pack in a short time would require more charging equipment than most people have. I would like to run HV again but I will probably stick to 5s-6s unless there is a HV car controler built here in the USA so I can get fast service if it blows.

[johnrobholmes]

Well than, I guess there are no problems


I bet if you give it time they will release one. My guess is that a 12s switching BEC would be developed first, then the ESC would be developed.

[Finnster]

Originally Posted by johnrobholmes

There must be a reason that you haven't bought the existing HV car controllers already, right?

See sig below lol

The data I posted is from my ET testing on my Revo. I'm not making figures up. My only complaint of the MGMs is the reverse issue, but that's w/ all. If they tweak the software its a 100% controller. Otello is running a Jazz 55 on 10S A123 and its very smooth also.