Castle HV Hydra, but where is the car version!!!! - Page 3 - RC-Monster Forums

johnrobholmes · 10.24.2007, 11:57 AM

Well than, I guess there are no problems

I bet if you give it time they will release one. My guess is that a 12s switching BEC would be developed first, then the ESC would be developed.

Dagger Thrasher · 10.24.2007, 12:02 PM

It basically boils down to what people are going to buy. 95% of brushless MT users are never going to use over 6S LiPo! Heck, most people can't afford to go over 6S as it gets very expensive. Castle aren't going to develop an ESC that they're going to lose money on, and I think Joe was perfectly right in what he said. To even release a car version of the Hydra HV is going to be very expensive (time to reprogram, packaging, and hardware alterations that need to be made etc). Like Johnrobholmes said, the market just isn't there. For most users, 6S LiPo setups offer excellent performance and efficiency...and the MMM looks to be a stonking controller. If the market arises, then I'm sure they'll build an MMM HV...but it isn't there. It makes perfect sense...and at this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if Castle stopped visiting and posting on this forum.
All they've gotten lately is complaint after complaint. Though they deserve some of it for the MMM wait, they're now getting flak for not building a HV car controller right away? Come on. The MMM should be an awesome controller for a great price which will probably handle 7S easily anyway, so let's be grateful.

Sorry for the rant, I've had a bit of a bad day...but that's just my 2 pence.

lutach · 10.24.2007, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagger Thrasher

It basically boils down to what people are going to buy. 95% of brushless MT users are never going to use over 6S LiPo! Heck, most people can't afford to go over 6S as it gets very expensive. Castle aren't going to develop an ESC that they're going to lose money on, and I think Joe was perfectly right in what he said. To even release a car version of the Hydra HV is going to be very expensive (time to reprogram, packaging, and hardware alterations that need to be made etc). Like Johnrobholmes said, the market just isn't there. For most users, 6S LiPo setups offer excellent performance and efficiency...and the MMM looks to be a stonking controller. If the market arises, then I'm sure they'll build an MMM HV...but it isn't there. It makes perfect sense...and at this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if Castle stopped visiting and posting on this forum.
All they've gotten lately is complaint after complaint. Though they deserve some of it for the MMM wait, they're now getting flak for not building a HV car controller right away? Come on. The MMM should be an awesome controller for a great price which will probably handle 7S easily anyway, so let's be grateful.

Sorry for the rant, I've had a bit of a bad day...but that's just my 2 pence.

Patrick Castillo said in rcgroups he would release 2 versions of the MMM. One would go up to 6S and the other 12S. Most companies (Acutally all) that offer HV controllers for car use are based in Europe. If a US company made such controller, then it would change everything. A few people buy a HV controller and only use 6S, but they know when they want to go with higher voltage, the controller is there.

What's_nitro? · 12:10 PM

I was just trying to say that it would be easy for them to convert it to a car version, and easy to roll it back to boat version if it didn't sell well enough. Even if they only sold 100 of them, that's 100 they wouldn't have sold if they didn't make the conversions.

Like one of those "Risk-Free" trials that you see on TV at 3:00 AM.

lutach · 10.24.2007, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by What's_nitro?

I was just trying to say that it would be easy for them to convert it to a car version, and easy to roll it back to boat version if it didn't sell well enough. Even if they only sold 100 of them, that's 100 they wouldn't have sold if they didn't make the conversions.

One thing they could've done is program the controller with a boat and car mode. MGM did it with their car/boat controller. Why can't Castle do the same? Make a nice heat sink with water cooling and options to mount fans as well. Note if Castle does this they actually stole my idea LOL.

What's_nitro? · 10.24.2007, 12:13 PM

That's just what I said at the top of the page! Give it car firmware and some heatsinks and you're done!

Dagger Thrasher · 12:16 PM

Quote:

Patrick Castillo said in rcgroups he would release 2 versions of the MMM. One would go up to 6S and the other 12S. Most companies (Acutally all) that offer HV controllers for car use are based in Europe. If a US company made such controller, then it would change everything. A few people buy a HV controller and only use 6S, but they know when they want to go with higher voltage, the controller is there.

He only said that a 12S controller was a possibility, and unlikely unless they got a lot of demand. Plus, he said that if they did make one, it'd come after the MMM. I agree what you mean about voltage headroom, but right now, like I say, most people have no need for anything higher than 6S. It'd be great if they did build one, but at the moment there's no real demand for it. I bet it'll come in time. I'm not against it, but I just don't think Castle should get grilled.

johnrobholmes · 10.24.2007, 12:15 PM

Castle isn't satisfied with a boat controller rebadged as a car controller with a heat sink- they would have already done this if it would work. The startup loads are different, the startup routine is different. A 100 amp boat controller won't be very powerful compared to a 100 amp car specific controller. The burst requirements are vastly different.

nl12 · 10.24.2007, 12:17 PM

That would work but it would be less than ideal, it seems Castle wants to get their controlers to a level above MGM, Quark and others. At least that would be a good reason for the MMM taking longer than expected.

Finnster · 12:31 PM

I think really that CC's opinion of the E-car market is that its mostly n00bs. This may actually be about right tho. The plane, heli and HP boat market tends to attract more demanding and exp users who can afford the investment in lipos/chargers/good motors etc, and the skill to use them.

Handling 40V batteries is not for the careless or inexperienced, and unfortunately from what I've seen, a good # of Emaxx users fall into this catagory. The HV demand will come up w/ the acceptance of BL into the racing circles. When hi-power elect 'uggy racing becomes less "nitchy" and more pro, you will see more a need for these controllers.

All of the other ESCs have multiple software modes. Not much is needed to convert them from plane to heli to car to boat other than software and HS. There really should be a reason the Hydras or such couldn't be programmed for car use and just swap the HS. My MGM has both car and boat modes I can freely switch between and it just alters the programming profile.

johnrobholmes · 10.24.2007, 12:30 PM

I didn't want to mention the HV and user, but it would be a concern for me. Around 50 volts is when you can short a circuit by just touching it. With sweaty hands the voltage drops even lower. I certainly wouldn't feel safe selling a 5000w 50 volt controller to a kid, they would probably hurt somebody with the battery or vehicle.

Finnster · 10.24.2007, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnrobholmes

I certainly wouldn't feel safe selling a 5000w 50 volt controller to a kid, they would probably hurt somebody with the battery or vehicle.

Isn't that pretty much what CC is doing w/ the MMM?

Quote:

1515/1Y (first motor -- others available soon afterwards)
2200Kv
3HP continuous output at 6S Lipo (2400 watts input with cooling)
6HP+ output peak (4800+ watts input)
Continuous operation at up to 125C (external) / 150C (internal) without damage
5mm shaft

lutach · 10.24.2007, 11:41 PM

Good point.

rhylsadar · 10.25.2007, 04:29 AM

hi

i may have overlooked it. but what exactly is the problem with the boat software to use it in a car?
can the brake not just be programmed with the prog cable and the software?

bye
rhylsadar

lutach · 10.25.2007, 04:51 PM

The brake on a boat controller is not like the brake on car controllers. On the boat controllers I have the brake is basically automatic. The brakes on my controllers comes on as soon as I let go of the throttle. All I'm saying is Castle could and should add a car mode to the controller. They already have the software from the Mambas.