RX8 or MMM combo?

Originally Posted by TexasSP

You have thoroughly proven my point. Your claims are nothing more than opinion with no fact to prove them. Data logging is the only way you can prove one motor is as, more, or less efficient than any other. Anything else is speculation and nothing more.

Also make note that nowhere in this thread have I asked for anyone's opinion.

By posting on the thread and responding to posts, you are asking for opinions. Look, keep running your MMM. That simple. Some of us like the rx8so far, others may not find the price premium worth it. Each to their own. No need for you to be all defensive. I am providing feedback as an owner of both systems, you can choose to take it or leave it. No skin off my back.

If you want to hook up a data logger while racing/bashing to get the readings, then by all means do it. If I race a 5 minute qualifier on multiple occassions and nothing changed except the esc/motor and measure what goes back in a fully charged pack along with motor/batt/esc temps, it is close enough in my book. It is about as a controlled environment anyone is going to get. I don't get hung up on analysis paralysis. The differences are neglible as far as runtime in my experience between the two systems so far. But if you want down to the decimal point readings, knock yourself out and I would love to see the data when you are done.

[lincpimp]

Just to clear up some info on Neu motors.

The older style motors had a one piece front endbell/can with a pressed in rear plate. About 1-1.5yrs ago they started using small screws to retain the rear endbell.

The newest batch of Neu motors appear to have a threaded on front endbell with small set screws capturing it, and a threaded or pressed in rear endbell with small set screws capturing that also. I have seen this in both finned and smooth motors. I can post a pic of a pair of 1521 1y finned motors that are both styles if desired.

I personally feel that the one piece can/bell motor will be superior, but what do I know...

Plan to run one of the 1521 motors in my lst and the other in the muggy. Both 6s with MMMs and geared similar. We will see which motor fails first!

[TexasSP]

Originally Posted by Edumakated

By posting on the thread and responding to posts, you are asking for opinions. Look, keep running your MMM. That simple. Some of us like the rx8so far, others may not find the price premium worth it. Each to their own. No need for you to be all defensive. I am providing feedback as an owner of both systems, you can choose to take it or leave it. No skin off my back.

If you want to hook up a data logger while racing/bashing to get the readings, then by all means do it. If I race a 5 minute qualifier on multiple occassions and nothing changed except the esc/motor and measure what goes back in a fully charged pack along with motor/batt/esc temps, it is close enough in my book. It is about as a controlled environment anyone is going to get. I don't get hung up on analysis paralysis. The differences are neglible as far as runtime in my experience between the two systems so far. But if you want down to the decimal point readings, knock yourself out and I would love to see the data when you are done.

You have some interesting logic I must say. It seems to me you are the one getting worked up yet you keep accusing me of this I don't know why. I am sorry you do not like that I have an opinion that differs from yours but that is hardly cause for me to get "worked up" as you suggest.

My point is that you made a claim that somehow the tekin motors where more efficient than the neu motors with no real world data to back that up. I made no assumption that either was more or less efficient than the other. So many factors play into why a given motor pulls more mah in a given period than just the mah factor alone. How much of that power drain was used and how much disspated as heat? What wattage was each individual motor putting out? So on and so forth....

You keep wanting to put me in some little box as holding the MMM up over the Tekin when I have stated multiple times this is not the case. I have nothing against Tekin, I like Tekin, they have nice features, I even own one of their ESC's.

The real deal is that you made a claim and laid the burden of proof upon yourself. I would ask for proof from anyone I know, even family.

Please understand this is a forum and I hold no anamosity towards you or any other who disagrees with me. Nothing on RCM or any other forum raises my blood pressure. I take it all with a grain of salt.

I understand that written word on forums and otherwise can be taken out of context very quickly.

My apologies if I have upset or insulted you in anyway.

If you're racing the tekin is the best as of right now.


The braking smoothness is way way above any castle/neu combo. As well the motors have so little magnetic drag that my buggy freewheels for way longer and this helps a ton in the corners.

[hootie7159]

Alcadema...I meant that you don't haveto spend $400+ for a MMM and a genuine NEU combo .... The $250 MMM combo CC/ NEU motor works just fine ESP for a basher...so there is no real need to buy a genuine NEU AND a MMM ... but I now realize you will be running 6s may be a little too hot for the 2200kv CCNEU...that's all:) but like I said I have both and love both...kinda like a Mormon husband with 2 wives, one for cooking and the other for cleaning LOL. ..... Just making jokes and I don't mean to offend anyone on here....:)

I cant talk for other people

But I for one dont have the money for a data logger. Send one my way and I will get your data. But I do not have extra money for stuff like, id much rather have tires, money for entry fee's, ETC...

I dont really know how people are complaining about a little extra cost. Tekin has always costed more, and unlike most manufactures (cough max amps cough) there is a good reason to it. There stuff is high quality, and well tested before it comes out. Some like there stuff, some dont. Because a ESC has solder posts put your own bullets on if you want them. For most of the people we dont want them! Direct solder is alot cleaner and more simple IMO. To swap motors or anything plug in the soldering iron, if you have a Hakko or a decent iron it heats up in like a min or 2 and unsolder the wires. I dont really see how thats a big deal? Bullets are cool, but its just more to go wrong, maybe they never will, but still I know my soldering wont fail on me. Hasn't yet anyhow...

Im not hating on castle. And have nothing against them (vice versa of Texas) If I was going to be bashing and pounding the crap out of my car id probably run a MMM. There is no reason to run anything really, running a Tekin to bash is fine with me, but in that case I dont see the extra spent money befitting much other then it looks sick. CC has great customer service, and same with Tekin. Both are great systems, so dont get me wrong.

Like it was said, I dont need a data logger to tell whats what. Your lap times show whats going on, im NOT saying necessarily faster lap times, and you will win more races, im saying overall, consistency, how easily the car drives, a smooth power-band, smooth brakes ETC. When I come in after a 10 min run or however long I ran my charger will consistently put X amount of mah into a pack. While its NOT the most accurate way, and I guess I cant really prove to guys like you with out data, I personally know what I like and want to run. And I continue to race. If you dont want to believe what people are saying off of there opinion I dont really care. Im sure soon enough there will be data to back everything up. But it wont be me, with this economy I hardly have money to race anymore =(

On the NEU subject, I dont care about the holes or any of that really. A CC NEU, or a real NEU there amazing motors, and I dont have anything to complain about. But Tekin came in and set the new standards. I know most people here hate sensored, but I remember CC saying sensored was inferior and stuff like that, and then they make a sensored MM pro? WTF? What happened to all that was said about that?


Im not here to piss anyone off. Not here to start a war. Just throwing my point of view up here

[jhautz]

I cant belive I just read this whole thread. 12 minutes of my life I'll never get back.

[TexasSP]

Originally Posted by BlackedOutREVO

Im not hating on castle. And have nothing against them (vice versa of Texas)

Our schools are failing us truly. Please learn to read before posting.

I own a tekin controller, I like the tekin controller. No where in this thread am I bashing tekin.

My point was there were a lot of bold claims with no data to back them up.

[Pdelcast]

Originally Posted by BlackedOutREVO

I know most people here hate sensored, but I remember CC saying sensored was inferior and stuff like that, and then they make a sensored MM pro? WTF? What happened to all that was said about that?

Well, I'll explain why the MM Pro has sensors.

There is a governing body out there for racing (ROAR) that approved a particular motor (and ONLY that motor) for racing. The rules were written in such a way that only a particular design of motor was allowed for racing in four of the five brushless classes for 1/10th scale.

The motor that ROAR approved was poorly designed, performed horribly, generated very very little torque, had huge inductance, a rotor that was WAY too small, and a backiron design that ran in saturation ALL THE TIME.

The motor is so bad, in fact, that the back-EMF is tainted by the saturation levels on the iron, by the tiny rotor, and the lack of generated torque.

Because the back-EMF is so poor, it is difficult to start reliably with a sensorless controller. We have done a pretty good job, but racers wanted a little less startup hesitation on ROAR motors. So we added sensors to the MM Pro.

THEN, another company started using the sensors to push timing WAY up on those poorly designed motors. Because the motors had WAY too much inductance, pushing timing way up helped the poor little motors generate a little more torque, and pushed the Kv of the motors up. The timing was being pushed to a level that cannot be done without sensors (by using a software PLL --) And even though many of us complained to ROAR that this would start a war that would force those who race to use "sacrificial" motors (motors that would last only a few runs before dying,) ROAR decided that there were already so many people racing in these classes that it would be detrimental to change the rules.

So, the answer is: We added sensors to the MM Pro so that we could run a badly designed motor and push those badly designed motors to the destruction point -- all in the name of keeping racing "fair and level..."

And BTW, in our Modified motors and 1/8th scale motors (which ROAR now allows pretty much anything that fits in the right case size) you won't be seeing any sensors. The only motor that is so bad that it NEEDS sensors is the ROAR stock and super stock motors....

[George16]

I had fun reading this thread since our ship is just floating around somewhere in the Pacific Ocean . What a great way to start my Saturday morning especially since we have satellite internet .

The motor that ROAR approved was poorly designed, performed horribly, generated very very little torque, had huge inductance, a rotor that was WAY too small, and a backiron design that ran in saturation ALL THE TIME.

Does this mean that any motor that says ROAR approved design suffers from these traits ?

[_paralyzed_]

Originally Posted by asheck

Does this mean that any motor that says ROAR approved design suffers from these traits ?

for 1/10 brushless that seems to be the case

[Ryu James]

does anyone know anywhere that has the RX8 combos in stock? or even anywhere to buy just the ESC.

[e-mike]

Originally Posted by Ryu James

does anyone know anywhere that has the RX8 combos in stock? or even anywhere to buy just the ESC.

there almost out of stock and the esc for now is not for sale alone...maybe this week...im waiting for this esc for about 1 month....only the kit and motor are avalaible.in limited stock

[Unsullied_Spy]

Despite the price difference, I think I talked myself into the RX8 combo last night. I have an MGM ESC in my onroad Hyper, a Castle ESC in my A/T Muggy, so why not test out a Tekin ESC in my offroad Hyper? I really like the Castle combos, but something really makes me want to test out the Tekin setup.