Are Zippy Lipos safe with a Castle MMM Speedy?

[fastbaja5b]

So based on what is being said here, one should be fine to run it on 6s with the 20t pinion and if anything it should be easier on the system than running on the 25t pinion

so why are we being told that to run on 6s we must run the 25t pinion as is the feedback here:
http://www.ausrc.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15868

Where the blame has clearly been laid on the user running the 20t pinion and not the 25

If anything, if you're going to change gearing shouldn't it be down to like a 15/16t pinion?

And I still haven't had a reply from castle support, been what, 3-4 days now? :( not cool!

[hoovhartid]

Originally Posted by lincpimp

They list 62mph with the included 25t pinion and phatlines...

that was my point in post #90....

I think that they didnt make it clear enough that when using the 25t pinion you need lighter tires than stock.

[fastbaja5b]

But HPI blamed a guy smoking his speedy on running the 20t pinion on 6s not the 25t

here's a video of the incident (can't get more evidence than that!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf00JUvU2QI

Originally Posted by fastbaja5b

So based on what is being said here, one should be fine to run it on 6s with the 20t pinion and if anything it should be easier on the system than running on the 25t pinion

so why are we being told that to run on 6s we must run the 25t pinion as is the feedback here:
http://www.ausrc.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15868

Where the blame has clearly been laid on the user running the 20t pinion and not the 25

If anything, if you're going to change gearing shouldn't it be down to like a 15/16t pinion?

And I still haven't had a reply from castle support, been what, 3-4 days now? :( not cool!

guys this is math higher voltage needs smaller pinion larger spur = less current = cooler esc. start with a smaller pinion like 18t and see what the temps are like then go up and see where things are. if you want to go 60 things are going to break. better to gear for 40's and things will last and you can focus on driving vs repairing

[fastbaja5b]

Originally Posted by alangsam

guys this is math higher voltage needs smaller pinion larger spur = less current = cooler esc. start with a smaller pinion like 18t and see what the temps are like then go up and see where things are. if you want to go 60 things are going to break. better to gear for 40's and things will last and you can focus on driving vs repairing

I agree, if I run 6s I want to gear at 17/18 t pinion but what we are being told here by HPI is that the ESC blew because the user ran the 20t pinion and not the 25t.

That is my point.

We all agree you should gear DOWN for more volts, but HPI is saying gear UP for more volts, and in the continued absence of a reply from castle creations on this matter, I want to be able to stay within warranty. Based on that, I need to throw out all the conventional logic and follow the manual, increase the load and gear the hell out of my motor on 6s?

[Lee Estingoy]

Originally Posted by fastbaja5b

I agree, if I run 6s I want to gear at 17/18 t pinion but what we are being told here by HPI is that the ESC blew because the user ran the 20t pinion and not the 25t.

That is my point.

We all agree you should gear DOWN for more volts, but HPI is saying gear UP for more volts, and in the continued absence of a reply from castle creations on this matter, I want to be able to stay within warranty. Based on that, I need to throw out all the conventional logic and follow the manual, increase the load and gear the hell out of my motor on 6s?

No. Increasing the load along with the volts is not a recipe for success. Decreasing the gear ratio (more motor turns for fewer wheel turns, or making a smaller fraction, for example: 1-50 instead of 1-20) is needed when increasing input voltage while holding the KV constant. That's true no matter what any manual says.

Thanks,

Lee

[hemiblas]

As long as you buy quality batteries you can gear up to the 25T pinion and it should be ok. Question is whether you can handle that much power.

[fastbaja5b]

So if I use the Zippys but stick on the 20t pinion or even gear down, I should have less issues than if I go to 25t? (Assuming a 6s set up ZIppy Lipo 5000mah 20c-30c)

..naturally that's assuming the motor isn't telling me it's undergeared (which is why the DX3s temp sensor is right on the can)

[lincpimp]

Originally Posted by fastbaja5b

So if I use the Zippys but stick on the 20t pinion or even gear down, I should have less issues than if I go to 25t? (Assuming a 6s set up ZIppy Lipo 5000mah 20c-30c)

..naturally that's assuming the motor isn't telling me it's undergeared (which is why the DX3s temp sensor is right on the can)

That is how it works. Taller gearing equals more current draw. No way to get around that. An 18t pinion sounds like a good setup to me...

[Finnster]

Wow, this is going to be an expensive F'up. IMO, they should have never sold a RTR truck advertised with that much voltage and speed together on a 1Y motor. Its just tempting the noob public to abuse it and blow it up.

I understand the tech reasons why better batteries are better, but making premium batts are requirement are a mistake IMO. First of all, which exactly are the premium batts? Does HPI/CC supply an approved list of part #'s? I have a pretty good idea being here and playing w/ BL for so long, but the avg kid walking into a LHS to buy a flux will have no idea. Worse off, many manufacturers over sell their batts (one infamous company comes to mind, but not the only one) let alone the things people find on ebay and word of mouth.

So expecting some dude, who just dropped $600 on a new BL truck to go out and spend $300 on a single pair of batts is crazy. They are not going to do it. Esp as was alluded to earlier bc of a decision to have lower specs on the MMM vs other controllers that may be able to withstand the higher ripple voltages.

Have the OEMs visited a LHS recently and really watched some of the trucks brought in for repair? People do really stupid things to them. Some out of ignorance, some out of neglect, and others simply bc they are cheap. (Face it, this hobby is very expensive and you have to find a way to cut corners.) How did they do they beta testing? Giving things to the people that know what they are doing and are careful with things? Or give it to the biggest idiots you can find and let them jump their trucks off houses and let them see if they can break it? The later is far more predictive of the marketplace performance IMO. [Reminds me of the the big banks saying their mortgage backed securities are fine and stable, assuming housing prices continue to rise, then shocked when the bubble bursts and everything implodes]

I've done it. Electric noobs dont understand batteries. A batt is a batt right? ;) I remember the 1st RC10 I bought I got crappy powerizers off Ebay for it and I thought that was expensive.

IF OEMs are going to really jump into RTR BL vehicles, they need to have the engineers go down to the marketing dept and beat them over the head first. Overselling the specs, pushing #'s to their limit is going to backfire. I know its not sexy, but BSing the #'s on a BL = failures, while overstating #'s on a nitro has little consequences. I can say whatever HP on a nitro as no one can ever replicate that #, and it will just run whatever it runs anyway. If someone complains, blame their tuning, fuel, weather or whatever.

Putting 62mph on a box, saying 6S (46K rpm+) on that motor, and giving them a huge pinion in the box to try it is asking for it. I feel better running a MM on 5S w/ an XL motor than that. Anyone that tried that setup on a vehicle here would be told they are an idiot and will smoke their system. You can push things if you are really careful and really know what you are doing, but in the end most of us here run these motors much more calmly (28-32K) and we have reliable systems that perform great.

Don't treat the truck community like they are plane or heli people. They are not. Some are really careful, but many are just out to bash and break stuff. Thanks for providing fodder to the nitro heads to why BL sucks and cant even do what it says on the box w/o smoking or spending endless $100s to get an hr of bash time.

[phatmonk]

I ditto that.What does BL RTR realy mean.Easily 300.00 for a 4s 6000 High quality battery.A far cry from a gallon of nitro fuel for 25.99.

[pasan]

You people do realize that this isn't the first Brushless RTR vehicle to hit the market right? And fodder for nitro heads proving BL sucks? You didn't touch on anything even remotely highlighting that BL sucks, only that people are capable of making uninformed decisions. I don't see how that equates to "BL sucks". The consumer likes...nay *wants* performance. It's a tried and tested formula, and it won't fail. It's the responsibility of the consumer to use it as how they see fit.

[fastbaja5b]

I agree the manual is pretty piss poor at best

They tell you to run "25c" batteries on 6s Lipo

...so my 1800 mah 25C Lipos should be sweet - done

Then I will put the 25t Pinion on because thats what it tells me to do.

The advert says the truck can do standing back flips and 62mph..... I have my 25C batteries and the 25t pinion...

Technically am I disobeying the Manual? no!

This leads to the frustrated user who knows more about nitro than anything else, and the bandwagon mentality of "Savage Flux = fail" starts:

http://www.aussiercbashers.com/viewt...f2b6fadee184e3 <--- A good example.


I admit I have a pair of 3s Zippy Lipos 20C-30C coming for my Flux

But don't for a bloody second think I'm running the 25t pinion on it, I run the 20t on 4s Lipo so if I go to 6s if anything I'll go to a SMALLER pinion and keep an eye on my temps.

18t is the smallest pinion I can run on the kit spur so thats my starting point.

...they complain about drivetrain failure, but they lock the slipper down? They keep punch control at 0%?

..make a bigger truck and they'll make a bigger idiot I swear!

The flux is essentially a ready made Savage with a BL conversion, the 3 main gears in the box that cross over all have "hop ups" available for heavy duty applications

86084 - 86274
86098 - 86275
86097 - 86136
The truck has some obvious cost cutting in there, Phillips Head screws??? Bushings in the steering assembly? The worst 17mm hex hub set up I have ever seen....

The only issue I have with my flux at the moment is I STILL have no reply to my email sent to Castle support almost a week ago now. At a time when they should be at their most vocal, they are the most quiet.

That above all else worries me the most.

[pasan]

Originally Posted by vbxt

I think that this charger from Hobby City might do what you are talking about.
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...Charge_Capable

I have one, and it appears to charge each cell (up to 4) independently. There are 4 LEDs that indicate the charge status, and they switch from red to green at the end of the charge cycle at different times as each cell is fully charged.

I have no complaints about this charger other that the slow charge rates.

edit: I just remembered that this charger also does not seem to have any problems with over-discharged packs. I was discharging a SMC 5000 mah 2S Lipo with a light bulb and forgot about it. It was reading 0.0 volts on my multimeter. I hooked it up to this charger, it fully charged it, and it still works perfectly to this day. It may all be in my head, but I think that it works better than before!

That's interesting. I was looking at the Accucel-6 by Turnigy because there's nothing but mad raving 5* reviews for it. But I just read up on the hextronik and quite a few people do claim that it charges individual cells. Which is exactly what I need. And the price seems to be unbeatable too, costing less than a good balancer.

[MrMin]

Guys. I understand castle's standpoint here. As far as I understand, the problem is that the zippies cannot handle the current coming back to the batts(they got to handle 540 joules!! in 1-2 seconds). They cannot hold the voltage below 30v(FET max voltage) especially when braking. You will need to give the poor little zippies a helping hand to dump the load/current somewhere. Why not fix the problem by helping out your poor little zippies and any other batts that cannot handle the load? See my "investigating the mmm thread." as I will be putting the info there.