Are Zippy Lipos safe with a Castle MMM Speedy?

[fastbaja5b]

Was looking at getting a pair of 3s Zippy Lipos for my HPI Flux..
when I came across this thread:

http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...ml#post5469766


So now I am confused.

Should I not use Zippys in my Flux?

[brushlessboy16]

Batteries do not kill speed controll's... operator or manufacturer does.. I have been running a zippy with my 2200 combo for months with no problem...

That guy just doesnt know what he is looking at.

[hootie7159]

Originally Posted by brushlessboy16

Batteries do not kill speed controll's... operator or manufacturer does.. I have been running a zippy with my 2200 combo for months with no problem...

That guy just doesnt know what he is looking at.

+1....i've been running zippy-h's for a couple months now with my MMM/Neu 1515 1/y/f and it started in my revo, then my 8ight-t, then my e-maxx, then my 8ight, and now i run both in my sc8 and rc8t.....i've recently picked up some of the flightmax 30c lipos and use then in my rc8t and so far the only complaint I have about them is the fact that they so sometimes take a while to get back into balance after being discharged up to the LVC...but thats why i own 2 balancer/voltage testers (from commonsense rc thankyou!)....zippy's have always been great bang for the buck and only once have the soldering jobs on packs been a little loose.... but thats only happened once in the 12 packs i've received.....I've ran each pack down until the LVC and they have each taken a little bit more than 5000mah each time....i say get some zippys...or the flightmax if you can wait...or Mike's lipos!

[SpEEdyBL]

Originally Posted by brushlessboy16

Batteries do not kill speed controll's... operator or manufacturer does.. I have been running a zippy with my 2200 combo for months with no problem...

That guy just doesnt know what he is looking at.

As discussed in the thread, a poor quality pack is a huge threat to the life of the esc and that is a fact. That is not to say that the Zippy pack was the cause. There was likely something else leading to the disaster. The fact that the car "seized" during a straight means something more serious. Whatever the cause, these "1 in 1000" scenarios are bound to pop up more often as more escs are sold.

[hemiblas]

I finally picked up one of the zippy 25C 5000mah 3S packs and used my wattmeter to test and a 120A spike was at 10.13V on an 11.1V lipo. That wasnt a bad number for a battery on a full charge. I was geared for 55mph on an MMM 2200 combo. I had it in 5S config with an 8000mah 15C battery that gave an even higher voltage drop at the same current. I can see these numbers dropping significantly when the packs get discharged a bit, but in general I think all Lipos are overrated. I dont think that pack could see 120A continuous draw much like any other pack could see 120A continuous draw. The packs that claim even higher numbers are just making this stuff up even more.
It sounds like that was a fluke and something besides the battery that caused the failure. I can see a bind in the driveline causing a huge current spike enough to take out the speed control. For the most part though, Its all about C rating vs final speed. Generally if you are geared for around 40mph I dont think you are going to have these issues, but gearing for higher is probably going to tax the speed controller and batteries.
On a separate note, if it was the driveline I can see why Castle might not want to warranty the speed controller. It might or might not be their fault, but if they see a 1000A spike took out the speed controller, they will have to question what happened and ask whether it is truly a manufacture defect or not.

[sikeston34m]

The poster on the rctech thread sounds very bogus to me. It's more of a "Nitro guy converted to Brushless - going back to Nitro" thing to me.

A Bad cell in ANYTHING doesn't surge, it dies a slow death.

If a Lipo can't keep up because of it's "C" rating, it overheats and puffs.

[squeeforever]

Originally Posted by sikeston34m

The poster on the rctech thread sounds very bogus to me. It's more of a "Nitro guy converted to Brushless - going back to Nitro" thing to me.

A Bad cell in ANYTHING doesn't surge, it dies a slow death.

If a Lipo can't keep up because of it's "C" rating, it overheats and puffs.

Thats what makes sense and what I thought/think, but the Tekin prez said himself in that thread that they do infact surge?

[shaunjohnson]

ZIPPY 6S 5000mah flightmax FTW!!!!

[fastbaja5b]

I don't see that thing fitting!

[sikeston34m]

Originally Posted by squeeforever

Thats what makes sense and what I thought/think, but the Tekin prez said himself in that thread that they do infact surge?

Ok, I went back and read what you are referring to that Mr. Tekin Prez said.

They are talking about braking emf forces exceeding the voltage limitations of the caps and fets.

"If a battery is over rated or over stressed the voltage will bounce to very high levels and stress the caps. If the caps blow the voltage spikes can exceed the limits of the fets and the speedo will blow. Many of you are looking at things with data loggers that take 20 samples per second or less. We are talking about voltage ripple that happens in micro seconds that can bounce off the scope thousands of times per second with no caps. The fets are only rated to 30V."

Most Manufacturers allow enough overhead in their fet ratings and in their cap ratings to help compensate for this. They also don't over-rate the ESC, such as amp carrying ability, voltage range, etc. They also use forms of secondary protection in their braking circuitry. Couple this together with some great operating software, and you have a great package.

I've heard alot of really good things about Zippy Lipos and would not hesitate to use them. In fact, I've been thinking about ordering some soon.

[jzemaxx]

That's garbage. I have smoke several MMM's maxamp on one, TrueRC's on one and Zippy on another....flat BS and CC's attempt to pass off a controller problem to batteries.

[sikeston34m]

Originally Posted by jzemaxx

That's garbage. I have smoke several MMM's maxamp on one, TrueRC's on one and Zippy on another....flat BS and CC's attempt to pass off a controller problem to batteries.

Before we assume CC said something, I think we probably should hear their take on this subject from them.

Instead of playing, he said, she said.

[fastbaja5b]

Agreed I have fired off an email to Joe Ford about 8 or 9 hours ago, and am waiting on a response, I only asked as I want to get a pair of 3s for my Flux but finding that post and their "alleged" replies from Castle support, I thought it best to check before I throw some coin at it.

the 4s set up I run is 2 * 5000mah hard cased packs at 30C so I am fairly confident in that set up.

[squeeforever]

Originally Posted by sikeston34m

Ok, I went back and read what you are referring to that Mr. Tekin Prez said.

They are talking about braking emf forces exceeding the voltage limitations of the caps and fets.

"If a battery is over rated or over stressed the voltage will bounce to very high levels and stress the caps. If the caps blow the voltage spikes can exceed the limits of the fets and the speedo will blow. Many of you are looking at things with data loggers that take 20 samples per second or less. We are talking about voltage ripple that happens in micro seconds that can bounce off the scope thousands of times per second with no caps. The fets are only rated to 30V."

Most Manufacturers allow enough overhead in their fet ratings and in their cap ratings to help compensate for this. They also don't over-rate the ESC, such as amp carrying ability, voltage range, etc. They also use forms of secondary protection in their braking circuitry. Couple this together with some great operating software, and you have a great package.

I've heard alot of really good things about Zippy Lipos and would not hesitate to use them. In fact, I've been thinking about ordering some soon.

Now see, that makes sense. He never said anything about the regenerative braking (I'm assuming thats the cause?) causing the voltage spikes

[RC-Monster Mike]

Originally Posted by jzemaxx

That's garbage. I have smoke several MMM's maxamp on one, TrueRC's on one and Zippy on another....flat BS and CC's attempt to pass off a controller problem to batteries.

This proves the point more than it disproves it. None of those batteries are "high end" batteries and would all be prone to exactly what was discussed in the linked thread. Jim (Tekin Prez) made a couple sensible, descriptive posts in that thread regarding the "potential" pitfalls of lower end batteries. It is a fact. I am not here to call out any specific manufacturer or seller, but many packs do tend to be over rated, inexpensive packs that are popular due to their inflated specs, inflated marketing or low price(or combination of the above). Everything has its place. If your particular setup or driving style, etc. allows you to have great success with your particular "low end or mid range pack that happens to be overrated ", but you aren't anywhere near the particular pack's limits, then you got a good value. If you are pushing things, you will not only notice the performance difference with a good pack, but will be less likely to experience failures.

I am not saying the battery was the cause or wasn't the cause of the failure in the discussion - I don't know the guy, don't know the car and wasn't there. I do agree with the logic regarding the pitfalls of lesser quality cells - particularly in 1/8 brushless applications that tend be very hard on equipment. Maybe the pack was the cause. Maybe it was just one of several factors that caused the failure. Maybe it had nothing to do with the failure at all. It certainly COULD have been a major factor in the failure and the advice to use a quality pack is sound advice.